Fairgrounds Subcommittee

Monday, April 23, 2018 - 11:00 am


Shaun Gillilland - Chairman


Chairman Gillilland called this Task Force to order at 12:03 am with the following in attendance: Shaun Gillilland, Randy Preston, Ron Jackson, Steve McNally, Mike Mascarenas, Charlie Harrington, Jim Monty and Ike Tyler. Dan Manning and Chris Garrow were absent.


Also present: Dave Reckahn, Jim Dougan, and Dina Garvey


GILLILLAND: Okay, so weíre here for a couple of things. Jim, are you going to address the Community Resources issue with the architect?


DOUGAN: Yes, go ahead if you want. I can and it was brought up today, the grant that we didnít receive from the SHIPO people which incorporated both the bell tower and the Ag Center building. We thought by combining the two together weíd had a better chance at getting that grant. It wasnít successful. Community Resources followed up with SHIPO, with the people that award that grant, were told that it was the second best application they got and it would be better if itÖ


GILLILLAND: 1st loser.


DOUGAN: Yeah, weíre the biggest loser, I guess and so it would have been a better application if we had an architect or engineer who had historical building experience on the team during the application. So, I donít know whoís lining SHIPOís pockets, but.


JACKSON: Itís all a club, you know that, Jim.


DOUGAN: But, anyhow their recommendation was do that and so the suggestion was, if this committee wanted to and then the Board would go out to RFP for an architect with historical renovation experience that may know the buzz word that, to put into an application to make it more successful.


RECKAHN: They should look at, Anita already spent $20,000.00 on one of those architects on their first grant application, that they, the big report that Iím sure is too old now, but should maybe look at talking to them, if theyíve already been through the building and done some stuff.


MCNALLY: I think theyíre looking at $5,000.00 for this


GILLILLAND: Thatís correct


MCNALLY: You know to spend $5,000.00 to get $500,000.00 or even $300,000.00 makes a lot to sense to me, the way we spend money up here.




GILLILLAND: So, I would like to go to the Full Board of course to see though, but if itís okay with this Board weíll push it forward to go with that? Okay?


JACKSON: They make the rules, youíve got to play by their rules.


GILLILLAND: And the second thing, can you give us a quick update on the bid for the covered horse arena?


DOUGAN: Yup, since we spoke, even this morning, Shaun, I did speak with Community Resources. They are in the process of environmental, right now, getting those Iís dotted and tís crossed. We could go out to bid, but we canít award a construction contract or spend any dollars until the environmental is done. Anna thought that she would get a better timeframe to me, within the next few days of when they expect that.




DOUGAN: The specs are drawn up, the administrative requirements of the fair grant have been given to Purchasing already, so we can go out to bid pretty quickly, if we think that weíre going to hear on the environmental side of that within the timeframe when the bids might be open and awarded. So, Iíll get that back to you and if that, we actually already got approval to go out to bid from the Full Board, so weíve just beenÖ


JACKSON: Once the dates a line, go for it.


DOUGAN: Yeah, we just donít want to bid something and then not be able to award it within the 45 days that that bid is current.


JACKSON: Correct


DOUGAN: Thatís been the concern.


JACKSON: Donít even cut it close. When you know youíre dates are good, go for it.


MCNALLY: How big a building is that?


DOUGAN: Itís about 60 foot wide by 120 foot long and itís just a pre-engineered metal, and the walls are open.


JACKSON: But, weíre building with open walls.


MCNALLY: I know that Mike Marnell built that new pavilion down in Schroon Lake and Butler came in at about $240,000.00 on that and I think theyíre doing about $130,000.00. They bid out materials, concrete and labor separate. I think his came in around $130,000.00.


DOUGAN: Well, the way weíre bidding it, is right now the bid pack is this, prepared as materials only.


MCNALLY: Are you sure you want a metal building?


DOUGAN: That was when we did research, that was the only thing that we could come close to affording in the $96,000.00 range.


MCNALLY: Well, theirs came in wood at a lot less than the metal building.


GILLILLAND: I donít know if you can do that big of a free-stand.


JACKSON: I donít either.


MCNALLY: Oh yeah you can.


JACKSON: You would have huge beams for that big.


MCNALLY: You would have trusses.




MCNALLY: You can run a 60 foot truss just as easy as you can run a 24 foot truss.


DOUGAN: That is basically what, an idea of whatís planned for a building there, but I can do a little research. I can contact the local truss manufacturer and see.


MCNALLY: Well, you canÖ


JACKSON: Ward Lumber has that, donít they?


MCNALLY: Have Mike Marnell send you up his bids. You probably did them anyway, right?


DOUGAN: Steel Truss in Plattsburgh does it all the time, so they will probably help us out.


JACKSON: Might save some money; option A, option B


DOUGAN: Well, the proposal right now, weíre just going out to bid for the steel materials, with the engineered calculations, so that we know what kind of a footing that we go in, in the ground afterwards.


MCNALLY: Something to look at, I would like to see it before I build my pavilion. What are you talking for a ceiling, or itís going to be a truss design, a scissor truss?


DOUGAN: No, actually, you can almost see it in this picture, the roof, because of the pre-engineered steel it almost goes up, you can make it even taller. Weíre planning on an 18 foot, itís actually big enough that you would be able to get a tandem sized truck would be able to park in there.


GILLILLAND: And basically, because of the way that itís going to be set up, youíre going to have 60 feet clear on the bottom.


DOUGAN: Thatís right


GILLILLAND: You know, under cover and 120 feet clear under cover, which probably we were talking about one side of it, weíd put up bleachers for people to watch events and stuff, but my daughter works at the Crane Mountain thing and they put up a hoop house, basically which is smaller than that. They ride and train in there and theyíre getting called constantly by horse people to come and hold events there. So, once this goes up and itís available and stuff like that I think youíre going to see quite a demand for it, through a longer season and this will allow during fair and stuff, if weíre having rain or stuff like thatÖ.


JACKSON: You can still have the show


GILLILLAND: And then also the longer season and you know like Daveís dog shows and things like that.


MCNALLY: You can run side curtains on those are pretty easy, too. The vinyl or canvas type curtains and close with 3M to make them just about a 4 season building.


MASCARENAS: Jim, Iím hearing, maybe weíll see it on this bid, I donít know if weíve witnessed it yet, that the new tariffs on steel are starting to drive up the costs?


DOUGAN: We saw a big increase in steel with the nutrition bid, which is why we were able to from, it was originally planned as a light gauged steel building, but the hurricanes in Houston and all those areas took that steel price and really jacked it up. So, that is what made the nutrition building, why we changed from to that ICF, the insulated concrete block walls the full height, so, because, we were able to afford them with the price.


MCNALLY: The Butler building prices are right through the roof right now.


JACKSON: Maybe trusses would be cheaper. Can we bid it both ways?


DOUGAN: Yeah, we can definitely try.


MCNALLY: Well, Marnellís got the plan.


GILLILLAND: Well, you can certainly, I mean you canít have poles in the middle of the thing.




MCNALLY: You can go 60 foot with a truss, easy.




JACKSON: Itís just longer this way.


MCNALLY: I think his includes a scissor truss with a ceiling and I think he said $140,000.00. I donít think the buildingís quite that large, but itís a good sized building with concrete footings and the whole 9 yards.




JACKSON: What does he use it for?


MCNALLY: Mike, just a pavilion, a large pavilion. Thatís what weíre going to build in Minerva, too.


GILLILLAND: So, youíll look into that, Jim?


DOUGAN: Yup, yup, I can do that.


GILLILLAND: The other news would be the Fair Board, they got money from the Sire Stakes for the repair funds and theyíre also going to go into their fund balance and stuff and reroof the grandstand down there. Theyíre hiring their own contractor to do that and theyíve talked to Jim and DPW to coordinate on that, so that work should be going on pretty soon.


DOUGAN: Their contractor provided them with insurance and theyíre going to work with us through the insurance that they already give us, so that we donít have to add lots and lots of insurance just for the construction.


MONTY: My question is make sure that theyíre making it to our specs, you know, I know theyíre paying for it, but we want to meet, because we own the property.


DOUGAN: Yup, yup, they met with me already, I havenít seen specs yet, I have spoken with the contractor, itís Todd Stevens and he is going to get me the specs on that metal, the metal roof that weíre putting on there.


JACKSON: Theyíve got some metals now that are pretty amazing compared to a few years ago. They have that anodized aluminum coating and stuff on and it should be back, almost like the old steel used to be, you know last forever.


DOUGAN: I think what they were proposing was that kynar finish, that industrial kynar finish stuff. Itís not a standing seem, itís more of that double ribbed style that you see normal for siding, but based on the fact that itís an open building, not a fully enclosed, year around, you know heated building, I think weíll be fine with that.


TYLER: Can we make it year around if we need it?


JACKSON: One thought, is that on one of those historic, national historic buildings?


DOUGAN: Everything at the fairgrounds is.


JACKSON: Do we have to have that same old?


DOUGAN: Not when you use your own money.




DOUGAN: Not when you use your own funds.


JACKSON: Okay, just something that occurred to me, I donít want to put a roof on and thatís not the same steel that was there.




JACKSON: I donít know if they even make that anymore; do they?


TYLER: If SHIPO gave you money you would have a problem.


DOUGAN: If SHIPO gaveyou money, it would cost a lot.


GILLILLAND: Those are the things I have, does anybody have any other issues to bring up?


RECKAHN: I have one.




RECKAHN: I have a request from the Agility Dogs of the Adirondacks. Weíre probably one of the long standing users of the fairgrounds. Twice a year we have a dog show in June and September and Iíve been and weíve been utilizing the baby barn for our equipment and we pay a rental fee to the County for that, but with my, it looks like my absence after this Septemberís trial, they want to get a facility to be able to put their equipment in. We would like to keep going at the fairgrounds, the club has made a commitment that they would like to continue with that show. They would like to rent a storage unit similar to what the County or the contractor is using there from Sherwinís, metal container to keep that equipment in there. I did get permission from the Fair Board that they didnít have any problem with it, but what the group would like to do is have it as close to the stage area as possible. I donít know if you guys what to think about it as to where you would like to see that placed?


JACKSON: You mean between the stage and the 4H barn and that area?


RECKAHN: Well, they would like to put it right up on the backside of the stage, would be convenient, because our show is right there, right next to the stage. I donít know if you need time to think about that to decide if that would work or not work, but Iím just bringing it up for this Board to approve. You know, if we can have that facility and where we would place it. Thatís their recommendation, I donít know if thereísÖ


TYLER: So, you want to put a metal building, a metal storage unit behind the stage, facing the road?




MCNALLY: How big a space do they need?


TYLER: I think that would be an issue


RECHKAN: Well, we have the big dog walks and the a-frames, they call it, that are 12 feet long and we would need a building basically, at least 14 feet long that would probably be at least 8x8, because you have that, we have almost 50 jumps, we have tunnels.


MCNALLY: I canít imagine storing anything up by the grandstand. We just got it cleaned up, up there.


MASCARENAS: I think theyíre talking about that other stage, on the far end.


JACKSON: Thatís what I thought.


GILLILLAND: The stage closer by theÖ


JACKSON: Down by the 4H barn, down where the midway used to be.


MASCARENAS: Thereís the smaller stage there.


RECKAHN: No, no weíre talking about right up at the main stage is where we do the show.


GILLILLAND: Youíre talking the main stage in the oval?




GILLILLAND: So, itís the main stage in the oval. So, it would be behind the stage, so there would basically be a storage unit there?




MCNALLY: It sounds like a trailer might be an optimum thing, because then you can tow it.


JACKSON: Take it away somewhere.


MASCARENAS: Whatís the current issue with buildings we have there, that they canít be utilized for that?


GILLILLAND: The baby barn?


MASCARENAS: Is the baby barn that youíre currently using is no longer suitable?


RECKAHN: Itís a lot of work. The other problem is, is that once a year it all has to be moved. I move all that equipment for one week out of the year, nobody else wants to do that.


MASCARENAS: So, for fair week?


RECKAHN: For fair week I have to move everything.


MASCARENAS: Thatís the issue?


RECKAHN: Thatís the issue. So, what we normally do is, we have about Ĺ equipment that we set up in our yard, so we donít have to move it. So, June we take a lot of the equipment to our yard, but if nobody else wants to do that, so without me there to do all that moving.


JACKSON: And thatís the problem.


RECKAHN: Thatís the problem. They need something that they can put the stuff in, you know in September, have it stored over the winter and put it in in June and then be able to have it and not be able to have to move it in and out during fair week.


MASCARENAS: Okay, so they want a dedicated unit.


RECKAHN: They want a dedicated unit. We were offered to go into the County trailer there, but they were concerned that, I mean it doesnít seem like much, but the dog facility there, if you put it in, thatís $5,000.00 worth of equipment that they didnít really feel comfortable putting it in that County trailer that Iím not really sure if itís locked most of the time, itís there, itís next to our storage unit that we have behind the racehorse barns.


MCNALLY: Have they talked how much that rental would be on that container?


RECKAHN: I donít know, I havenít looked at that. I thought until last night, I thought they were going to buy a storage building or a storage trailer. Thatís what Iíve been talking to them about.


MCNALLY: A shipping containerÖ


TYLER: I think you need to look into it not being visual from the main road, after weíve cleaned that all up and put a new roof.


JACKSON: If they had a trailer than they could park over by anyplace, you know.


RECKAHN: I know, Iíve been trying to talk them into that. This is what theyíve sent me to ask for.


TYLER: Well, tell them that the County wonít approve it unless they have a trailer that they can move it, so itís not visible from the road.


RECKAHN: Well, I kind of thought that having a trailer, so they can back right up and put the equipment in it.


TYLER: It sounds like theyíre being awful picking to me.


MCNALLY: They can buy like a racecar trailerÖ


RECKAHN: $4,700.00


MCNALLY: Yeah, no bells and whistles and they can tow it to your house for your event, if they want to and they can store it out back by the old dump.


GILLILLAND: Well, one of the problems I guess I have is that if weíre going to, this is for the agility people and you know the crash people are going to want one there and then there is a precedent that weíre going to be setting.


JACKSON: I think the trailer is the way to go.


MCNALLY: You just got it all un-junked down there and weíre startingÖ


JACKSON: Yeah, I know itís looking much better now.


MASCARENAS: Well, my concern too is, once you start getting into, you know some of the property issues weíve dealt with and who is what and whoís done what and it further confuses the matter.


TYLER: Why you let those guys have a storage trailer there and not us?


MASCARENAS: Yeah, and I would ratherÖ


MCNALLY: Well, if you could move it back where they used to dump stuff out in the back.


JACKSON: Yeah, park a trailer there, itís out of the view and itís harmless.


MCNALLY: Any organizations do that, they want to put their stuff out back, I donít see a problem with you, Jim?


DOUGAN: Well, I guess the other thing, itís great that Daveís been able to kind of facilitate this over the years, but at some point, now you have this piece of equipment on our property all year long; okay? Somebody does break in to that and they own it, I mean are they going to come back and say the Countyís now liable for all this equipment that we just lost? I mean itís, weíre just walking back in to all same issues we had with all those other properties again. Theyíre part of the fair and fair is basically renting and insuring. I think that contractor is able to do that roof is because heís actually working for the fair under their insurance. If theyíre part of that than thatís a little different, because we kind of let the fair have the fairgrounds almost year around, see what Iím saying? I just think weíre talking about, I agree that a trailer or something that can be moved with a roll-off truck, one of those two things are the way to go, because then it can be moved during the fair or whatever, but you still have the legal, logistical issue of this contract between these two entities for a year at a time.


MASCARENAS: Those lot rents that weíve talked about in the past and we still havenít gotten to that yet. I think weíre getting there. To me, if weíre going to rent storage it should be our structures that weíre storing things in. Thatís typically what we do, so you know, if we wanted to build something that we let people rent on a yearly basis and charge a fee for, thatís one thing, because you control the aesthetics of it, you control the site, you control all those things, but once you start bringing in outside type things.


MCNALLY: Who knows what theyíre going to look like and everything else.


MASCARENAS: Well, yeah and no one wants to see that.


MCNALLY: Those shipping containers, 20 footer, you can buy them for about $1,500.00 and you know, you can move those with a flatbed.




MCNALLY: I mean you know if the County were to have one of those, they could rent it out to this organization and pay for it over and then we could be in control over it and we could move it for them, but I hate to see stuff put back up in there, once we just kind of cleaned it out.


JACKSON: Yup, Iím with you.


DOUGAN: Well and just and I donít know where itís going yet, because itís actually coming from Public Safety, but Public Safety, at least is proposing to do something with a fire building down there, correct?


GILLILLAND: A training tower?


DOUGAN: A fire training building and I thought they were going to suggest down there in the back, just beyond where weíre doing this building over the horse arena. So, you know we start storing these other things down there; which was suggested and that doesnít work.


TYLER: Like we said, if it can be moved and then itís no problem, we can move it to different places.




JACKSON: Unless youíre going to put up a storage building and group A, B and C all got their bays, but youíre talking a lot of money to do that again. You know put up a big barn like.


GILLILLAND: So, we donít want to do a permanent storage back there. We probably would entertain a plan for a removal one or a mobile one.


RECKAHN: Okay, thatís what I want to take back and youíre meeting in May, again?








RECKAHN: Okay and I will talk to them and come back in May.


GILLILLAND: Okay, is there anything else from anybody.


PRESTON: You want to think about that fire training building, because theyíre pretty ugly.


GILLILLAND: They get black and ugly and they stink.


TYLER: Iím going to get pushback on it, but Iím for it, 100%.


MCNALLY: Why donít they use the one in Lake Placid still?


RECKAHN: All Iíve got to say is the fairgrounds with the Soil and Water, we havenít had much luck with Emergency Services or with the Sheriff, because this winter, our hydroseeder had to sit outside all winter, because the Sheriffís boat, we had the tape across it that we were, that it was one of our units that we could use for storage and the Sheriffís boat just came in and moved it without talking to Scott or us or anybody.


GILLILLAND: Does anybody, on the fire training building, are they going to use, I mean are they just going to light off wood?


DOUGAN: Itís my understanding that itís propane fired, Shaun, but Iím not, those are questions for Donnie.


MONTY: Typically, the one Iíve been in Saratoga, they put straw in there and they have a sprinkler system, because they light the straw and the water drizzles on it, so you produce the smoke and stuff. My understanding with this is theyíre going to use propane and some kind of a chemical to produce the smoke.


GILLILLAND: Okay, just curious


PRESTON: The one in Placid has been there quite a while and it is, itís kind of ugly, because again, it gets black, but they use bales of hay and pallets.


MONTY: The same basic principle.


PRESTON: And once it gets going it actually has a temperature thing, gauge on the outside and they go in and put it out, but itís bales of hay and pallets.


MCNALLY: So, why is the County buying one if thereís one we can drive up to Placid and use?


MONTY: Because they got a grant for a central location.


JACKSON: Have they actually got the grant yet?




MCNALLY: How long do they have to use it?


TYLER: Well, itís going to be used, a bunch of fireman, talk to some fireman about it in Minerva.


MCNALLY: I was a fireman for 35 years.


TYLER: Youíre not now though, talk to some now, because the people now are a lot more efficient.


GILLILLAND: Alright, anything else from anybody? Alright, weíre adjourned.







Respectively Submitted,




Dina Garvey, Deputy Clerk

Board of Supervisors