Buildings and Facilities Task Force

Monday, February 7, 2022 - 9:00 am



Steve McNally - Chairman


Chairman McNally called this subcommittee to order at 9:00 am with the following in attendance: Stephanie DeZalia, Derek Doty, Roy Holzer (9:18), Steve McNally, Jim Monty, Ike Tyler, Meg Wood, Mark Wright, Jim Dougan, Mike Mascarenas (9:08) and Dan Palmer. Noel Merrihew was absent.


Also present: Dina Garvey


MCNALLY: Alright, do you have anything for us, Jim?


DOUGAN: So, that report I gave you last time, I kind of updated it a little bit here. Those were the projects that were specifically budgeted this year and I tried to do updates in red and I realized that there were some other projects that are still ongoing that were 2020 funds that werenít necessarily, you know, specifically new projects in 2022. So, I tried to give everybody an update there.

So, I donít know if you guys want to look through that, itís just an update of last time of whatís going on, projects, kind of broken down by building, updates. I guess one to talk about a little bit is this, right here, the bathroom across from the mailroom. There was a concerned raised by an employee, regarding that there might be some asbestos there. The Health and Safety Officer couldnít find the report that was done years ago, I guess probably 10 or 15 years ago, there was a report done in that area, but he couldnít find it. So, I do have to call ATL back in, just to verify. I donít really think thereís anything there, but I canít take any chances, especially if an employee or somebody asked. So, weíll be trying to get ATL here to test things shortly, but I really donít think thereís anything suspect there. But, I donít get make that decision, I have to have a lab do that.

Lots of little updates here, but not a lot of other, you know, changes that I think we need to focus on, unless anybody sees anything they want more detail on.


MCNALLY: The projects, court, I see you ordered materials. That seems to be a problem now, getting materials.


DOUGAN: It is, I mean that Treasurerís door is expected to be, you know, 4 months out at the best before we get that. Weíre trying to proactively do that as early in the year as we can, so we can get things done throughout the year.


MCNALLY: Well, this is a great report as always, Jimmy. Itís nice to have to updated, I suppose next, theyíll be red this month and another color next month?


DOUGAN: Yeah, yeah, and then the other thing that we talked about at the last meeting in 2021, because we have an hour here, we were going to, that conceptual plan that I gave you before, kind of listing talking points and things we were thinking in the future. We discussed maybe going through it building by building. So, these past couple of years, weíve been a little bit focused on the county courthouse. The county courthouse meaning the 3rd newest building we have, but it being, you know over 25 years ago and some of the systems are coming into needing repairs. So, we focused some money the last couple of years on the rooftop units and weíve got the roof coming shorty and thereís a number of items in that 2022 budget that are going to be there. So, I have a bit of an update on just the courthouse, so we can kind of talk about that and really Iím prepping you for March, because in March Iím going to bring you a discussion on the Public Safety Building; which is now 15 years old. Itís got a lot more specialty systems in it and our focus is going to move away from the courthouse, which I feel after what weíve done the last couple of years, we got some of the big hitter things out of the way and weíre going to, you know, in these next few years I am going to be focusing a little bit more money towards the Public Safety Building specialty systems is what I am trying to show you.


MCNALLY: I donít want to be a naysayer here, but we have really do something with that jail, the old jail.


DOUGAN: Yup, that is on this list. After our last meeting, Steve, Iím sorry, I think about all these things every day, so I probably skipped some of that in describing stuff to you.

Dan and I talked and his IT Department is getting a proposal to me from Twin State, who is going to, they are going to tag every phone/data fiber line that goes between here and jail, excuse me, here and through the old jail to the courthouse and to Probation. Theyíre going to give us a proposal to locate all those, so we know exactly how many pairs of either cable or how much fiber that weíre going to relocate and Buildings and Grounds is right now, should in the next few weeks have been able to give me a map of all the electric that is still in that building that is still running other parts of the main complex and when spring gets here weíre going to use our GPR and our sewer camera to locate those utilities. So, thatís going to be my first step on that old jail is locating and finding all those that are operational.


MCNALLY: Because thereís no chance that old jail being repurposed or refurbished, this has to be done anyway, no matter what we do with that building.


DOUGAN: I think so. I think the utilities, I think thereís even more, thereís more investigation I have to do on the utilities then there even is with the pod, itself. I think the pod is, if we have a place for it to go, yeah, we maybe have to have a vendor or figure out if we can move it ourselves, but the utilities, I need to, I canít lose service to the courthouse or to Probation.




DOUGAN: So, than I need to do the investigation, which is why Dan and I decided to kind of tackle that first.


MCNALLY: And what about that property, have we done anything with that?


PALMER: I havenít made an offer to them.


MCNALLY: Is that something we are going to do or should do?


PALMER: Probably, I just donít know, itís not a beautiful building to put on a main street. You know Jim and I talked about putting it on the back side, so you wouldnít notice it as much, it is kind of a homely building.


MONTY: Is that building going to be primarily used for storage?


MCNALLY: Training


PALMER: Yeah, essentially training, storage and vote counting. Whenever they do vote counts they do it in the pod.


MONTY: I was on the top of my head thinking, you know, the look of the building, would it be something, Jim, to, if weíre going to have to move it, move it up to where the landfill is and you drive in to the left, where Serkil used to pile all their tires and stuff, move it up there and it would be still close enough for storage and training, still centrally located, yet it would be kind of out of sight, so to speak.


DOUGAN: Not a bad idea, because of the look of the building. The building has a rubber roof on it; okay? The pod does. It does not have an expansion joint between a couple of pieces that were put there before. So, when we do move it, if we move it, Dan and I were hoping that we would almost get a vendor that would move it onsite through our stuff, over to that area without having to break that stuff down. If we move it that far, I am sure I would have to do that. You know, I hate to say a lot of things are still tied to school, if we knew the school was coming shortly we probably wouldnít bother with all of that. You know, Dan and I have talked about other areas were we could just store the voting machines and theyíd be tempered properly, generator protected that would make more sense than that, havenít come up with great ideas, yet. I mean I could potentially in the basement of the addition, we talked about that, but it wouldnít allow room for the training and the vote count that is done there now, is the other issue.


MONTY: There is still that building, I donít know if it would suffice, Gokeyís, just above the DPW there, Tommy Brownís old place. I know there was a lot of work done in there.


PALMER: Did he fix the floors? Because that was the problem. The last time I went in the floors were so bad, I knew we wouldnít be able to put any weight on the floors.


MONTY: My understanding is they did, because they were going to make apartments out of it and they got shutdown, because they never went and got the APA permit. They did all the work and never had the APA permit to put apartments in there.


TYLER: They had apartments in there before, Jim, didnít they?


MONTY: They did, but then, just one end, but they were going to make the whole things apartments. I havenít been in it in a lot of years.


MCNALLY: Is that building for sale?


MONTY: Itís been for sale, itís been for rent, itís been for whatever. It just hasnít come to fruition and it was just a thought, if you were looking for a temporary spot.




MONTY: Because training could be held at the, they probably train on the machines, though, right?


MASCARENAS: They do have some training at the Public Safety Building, I know that.


MONTY: I mean theyíve got beautiful rooms down there for the training.




MONTY: Upstairs and downstairs.


DOUGAN: Going back to even materials, you know we had looked at taking one of those Convex boxes that weíve used before to store things temporarily and weíve bought them in the past, weíve bought those used and even the vendor thatís been renting us stuff doesnít want to sell us any of those, because he canít get replacements. Not that thatís a real good option, but just for storage in general, wonít work for those voting machines, because they have to be in a tempered space, but thatís how difficult it is to even deal with some of that right now.

So, if you want to look at my, the other thing that I did for the county courthouse, I tried to give you a little bit of information on it, just, I think as we look at buildings, I think itís always important to remember what services are being provided there and from the standpoint of myself and some of my engineering staff up there, we look at the specialty systems as critical. Some of the buildings that we own are like a 1976 Chevy pickup and you can open up the hood, climb inside, change plugs and wires yourself, spray a little ether in the carburetor and youíre running; right? But, other things that we own are like a brand new vehicle and you donít want to even open the hood and look at it, much in fear that some sensorís going to go off and youíre never going to start the car again. So, the courthouse is kind of in-between that í76 pick-up and a brand new car. The Public Safety Building is going to be more like that brand new car when we talk about specialty systems. So, thatís why I took the time to kind, youíll see the same kind of format next month when I bring you the Public Safety Building.

So, the second page is mostly about projects and kind of what weíve done in the past couple of years, what weíve got planned this year and what weíre looking at in the future. So, been, the Board has been good to me, the Facilities Committee has been good to me and weíve had a fairly consistent level of budgeting moving forward to fix things and weíve tried to move it around between different buildings and projects. So, as Iíve said, weíve focused on the courthouse with a couple of $300,000.00 projects between the rooftop units and then another, the roof thatís coming shortly, but weíll be able to move some of that money into other places moving forward, if we keep that same level of budgeting. Thatís how weíve been trying to look at it, at least up at DPW.

2023, not a lot of big projects there at the courthouse and in the future, you know the two projects that I know are going to come are those front stairs, the middle section is getting kind of bad, weíve patched it a number of times and then that sewer pump station at some point thatís going to need all of its guts, everything replaced. Weíve replacing the sewer control panel this year, thatís a budgeted item, but again, I think the big dollar projects, other than the pump station will, arenít, weíve got the biggest ones out of the way for the short period.


DOTY: How many pump stations do you have, Jim?


DOUGAN: How many pump stations do we have?


DOTY: Yeah


DOUGAN: Weíve got a pump station here at the courthouse with two pumps in it and then weíve got another pump station up at the Public Safety Building. So, the Public Safety Building is a little bit more like a full wastewater treatment. Weíve got screening and everything to go through a little bit of a plant and then it goes out to a main pump station and then weíve got sand filter beds there.


DOTY: All 3 phase?


DOUGAN: Yup, itís all 3 phase.


MCNALLY: Well, it sounds like weíve got a pretty good plan for that building. What does it mean, basement entrance, potentially requested project?


DOUGAN: Well, Dan and I looked at that a little while ago. We received complaints in the past and maybe Dan has a better description than I do, but the use of DMV, to have to go through the court systems guards to just go to DMV is something that weíve gotten complaints on the past. So, weíve investigated what it might take to have an entrance directly into the basement and so I have one of our term consultants, architectural term consultants give us a schematic drawing and how we might do that. So, that plan would have us come entering the basement near where the elevator is in the basement over by DMV, thereís a spot there that would, could cut in and go directly towards that parking lot, met the grade, we donít see any utilities in the way and then we would have to put a roof over that, because it would be sloped down in, because it would be handicapped assessable to keep snow and stuff out of there, but it would be doable. So, thatís why, itís not necessarily required, but again, thereís been complaints in the past about access to DMV and having to go through the court system.


MCNALLY: The upstairs court?




PALMER: You got to go through the guards down to DMV.


MCNALLY: So, the employees are the only ones that would use that, right?


DEZALIA: That would be public.


DOUGAN: We would make it available to the public. The public would be able to get to DMV and to the County Clerk by going directly in.


MCNALLY: So, that would be, the egress would be from out back?


PALMER: No, it would be from the front of the building going out towards the parking lot thatís on the town hall side.


MCNALLY: To go through the court isÖ


PALMER: Yeah, you know, especially there when it got, a couple times there when the lines got way backed up and people were upset because they had to wait.


DEZALIA: Like when thereís jury duty and stuff and youíve got lines of jurors, 50 jurors or something and you want to just go to DMV.


MONTY: Would there also need to be secondary security down there, because itís a courthouse?


PALMER: I think we would have to do something with that elevator, so it wouldnít, there would have to be a special code or something to get beyond the 1st floor.


MONTY: So, there would be no access?


PALMER: Right, so they couldnít get up into the 2nd floor area.


DOUGAN: That elevator, that elevator, itís my understanding from Schindler who does our annual maintenance can be programmed, so it wonít go directly from the basement to the second floor. Which you know, could be a little bit of a difficulty for employees, staff, if they were trying to go all the way from the basement to the 2nd floor, but based on the way things are housed, the 2nd floor is all court system, the 1st floor is pretty much all court system, so it shouldnít be a real issue, but it can be programmed that way.


MONTY: They still would have access, unless I am seeing this wrong, they come in there, you go into DMV they still walk up the stairs, yeah, but then they would have to go by security.


DOUGAN: But, theyíre going past the security.


PALMER: The only way to bypass the 1st floor security guards is to be able to go directly to the 2nd floor.


MONTY: So, theyíd have to do something to have on the 1st floor to monitor whoís coming up and down.


DOUGAN: Potentially, yeah. The ways those stairs come up from the basement, theyíre over close to DMV, you come up and you pretty much have to look at the security guards in order to turn and go up to the 2nd floor, but youíre right.


PALMER: It would need to be monitored.


MONTY: Playing devilís advocate here, because in todayís day and age, you know it would be an assessable way if someone wanted to get in.


DOUGAN: Yup, not necessarily required, just a potential project.


PALMER: Again, this, unfortunately so much of it goes back to that school.


MONTY: Absolutely


PALMER: If we had the school we wouldnít bother with that, we would just move DMV and County Clerkís out of the basement area.


MCNALLY: Is there a vote scheduled or where are on that?


GARVEY: Still waiting on State Ed, havenít heard from State Ed.


MONTY: Canít do anything until State Ed tells them that they can do it.


GARVEY: And gives us any State Aid. You canít bring a vote to the voters without knowing how much itís going to cost.


MCNALLY: Alright, anything else? It sounds like we have a pretty good game plan with the court building.


DOUGAN: Youíll be scared, next month, when I bring you Public Safety things. The replacement of the rooftops.


MCNALLY: Thatís what 15 years old, that building?


DOUGAN: Itís 15 years old, but the big difference is a lot of the systems are extremely proprietary; okay? And so youíre tied to certain vendors. Iíd like to get to the kind of system that we replace things in phases so I can have consistent budgeting moving forward. I mean that building is always, every building we have is always going to be a depreciating asset and so I would like to bring consistent budgeting instead of these great big projects that are $300,000.00, instead of replacing all the rooftops or replacing everything and I almost think when it comes to the heating and air conditioning up there, I almost think I am going to have to tackle the control system first and replace that and then after I replace what I can start replacing the individual units, one at a time, instead of having all of it. So, itís, like I said, that building is more like todayís car and you canít just go spray ether on the carburetor and make it run. I want to give, as I replace things I want to go to the less propriety things, so we always have control, especially, I am nodding my head to Todd Hodgson and tip my hat to him and Huge Harwood, because these engineers are thinking that way, theyíre going to save us money long term if we can do some of this and do it ourselves instead of always calling a vendor and being stuck with their service call charges. So, itís tough to switch gears, even though itís 15 years old, itís tough to get out of that system. Those numbers are going to be bigger.


TYLER: Service agreements kill you.


MCNALLY: Our elevator in our town hall that gets used once every two months, by our parks guys to move something up and downstairs. Itís just a couple hundred dollars a month, service contract.


TYLER: Should have put a lift in.


MCNALLY: Did you put that elevator in?




MCNALLY: Itís a little oversized. They said itís the same components that could do a 10 story building and ours goes one floor, we got over sold on that one.

Alright anything else?


DOTY: Jim, could I ask you to just give me a quick explanation of the sand/salt shed?




DOTY: Weíre looking at the same idea and I see youíre funding at around a million dollars. How big is that building? Is it totally enclosed? And do you have to have 100% containment for that?


DOUGAN: Iíll give you my long-winded, Jim Dougan, engineering answer; which some of you have come to be used to. We use between 5,000-6,000 tons a year of salted sand. So, the structure that we are building and please come up and visit DPW, the walls are up, is 120íx75í and itís going to have a fabric canopy structure over the top of it. So, itís basically galvanized steel frame with, you know a plastic, poly-ethaline type cover over the top. Itís not fully enclosed; okay?
Thatís going to cover all of our salt and sand and underneath, as far as the floor, thereís a membrane underneath where weíre, then weíre going to put asphalt over the top of it.


DOTY: Okay


DOUGAN: So, that salt isnít going to go back into groundwater anymore. Right off the bat, I am going to reduce the amount of salt that I mix my sand by 50%, because itís going to be undercover. Right now we mix salt and roughly one bucket of salt to five buckets of sand.


DOTY: So, you figure youíre 20%.


DOUGAN: Yes, and so Iím going to go 1 to 10 and I put that much salt in early on just to keep that pile thatís exposed from freezing. So, now that itís covered up, I wonít have to have nearly as much salt in it.


DOTY: Well, it will stay dry and wonít freeze and clump on you.


DOUGAN: Exactly, now you know thereís still going to be some freezing when things come back and so I still have to have a screen that I dump things into, because we donít leave the trucks loaded with salt and sand after a storm.


DOTY: Right


DOUGAN: So, the million-dollar project, $750,000.00 was a DEC Water Quality Improvement Project Grant that Community Resources helped us get and then the other $250,000.00. I didnít come to the Board for any additional money to meet that match, because weíre doing most of it with our own force account work, our guys are digging and excavating and backfilling and weíre installing the storm water and weíre installing gravel and weíre installing asphalt. So, weíre able to do most of that without really having a hit to the budget. In addition, just in that, if you do the numbers on the salt, that 50% less, itís going to be a $40,000.00 saving a year, just in that salt, so in 5 years or 6 years, Iíve pretty much got that $250,000.00 worth of match back.


DOTY: So, will your mandate on buying salt, we you have to look at any kind of legislation, so you donít have to buy so much, like weíre all kind of forced to?


DOUGAN: Well, now thatís the amount that you order at the beginning of the year.


DOTY: Yeah


DOUGAN: Thatís what it is and so Iíll reduce my order.


DOTY: And youíll try and skip a year?


DOUGAN: No, I wonít necessarily skip a year, because thereís still times that I add salt to my sand and salt mixture.


DOTY: Depending on what youíre facing.


DOUGAN: Exactly, during the storm the other day, you know we put sand on the truck. We didnít put a lot of sand out while snow was coming down.


DOTY: Right


DOUGAN: We only put that out in a few key places, intersections and stuff like that, but you donít put much down while youíre plowing, but then as it warms up, if thereís anything, the wind blowing stuff that happens the next couple of days, weíll go out and weíll definitely put some extra sand and probably have a higher percentage of salt, because we want to clear that off the roads, anything thatís left in the warmer temperature that weíre getting in the next couple of days.


DOTY: How high are your sidewalls? You must have to do a lot of back filling.


DOUGAN: The concrete is 18 feet high.


DOTY: Okay


DOUGAN: And then the canopy is on top of that.




DOUGAN: And I believe a couple of other towns got grants this past round through Community Resources help. I donít know if theyíre trying to cover all their sand and salt or just their salt.


DOTY: Do you do your total mixing outside and then just move the finished product inside?


DOUGAN: In the past it was all outside.


DOTY: Right


DOUGAN: So, we will most likely be able to do our mixing inside and the goal is actually, we also, in the past weíve also brought our sand in closer to fall, I want to bring sand in closer to spring, because that way itís in there all summer drying. Itís going to be as dry a product as I can. It works better in our machines, itís less wear and tear on the plow trucks if itís dry than if itís wet. Especially, if I have to go back to using, we have a tailings pile in Moriah that we own and weíve used that for sand in the past, depends on availability of other sand and other things. That material is very, very moisture sensitive, meaning it holds a lot of water and so if I do have to use that, I definitely want to get that undercover as early as I can.


DOTY: Thanks


DOUGAN: Sorry, long-winded Jim Dougan explanation.


MCNALLY: Yeah, we keep our sand and salt mix outside and our salt inside, because we do State work and we have to straight salt.


DOTY: We do as well.


HOLZER: Weíre the same way.


MCNALLY: So, youíre going to do State roads you have to keep your salt by itself.


HOLZER: Well, we have to put salt on our sand, so like Jim said.


MCNALLY: Well, we do, but we mix it, but we leave that pile outside then we keep the salt undercover also.


DOUGAN: We put a compartment inside this overall structure where the straight saltís going to go.


MCNALLY: If you do State roads you have to have the straight salt.

Alright, anything else for Buildings? Okay, great work Jimmy. Weíll see you next month.







Respectively Submitted,



Dina Garvey, Deputy Clerk

Board of Supervisors