Buildings and Facilities Task Force

Monday, March 7, 2022 - 9:00 am



Steve McNally - Chairman


Chairman McNally called this task force to order at 9:00 am with the following in attendance: Robin DeLoria, Stephanie DeZalia (9:15), Shaun Gillilland (9:10), Roy Holzer (9:18), Steve McNally, Ike Tyler, Davina Winemiller (9:15), Meg Wood, Mark Wright, Jim Dougan, Mike Mascarenas and Dan Palmer. Noel Merrihew was absent.  


Also present:  Dina Garvey, Hugh Harwood and Todd Hodgson.


MCNALLY: Alright, Jimmy, want to start off?


DOUGAN: Yeah, I am going to start with the one that the Facility Committee Update, Planned Projects for this year. The red is the changes. I will just hit a few things quickly. The main complex, as we talked last time, some concerns about asbestos were raised. So, Atlantic Testing is here this week to just grab samples. The way that they grab samples, you know there isn’t really anything destructive that they’re doing. They are just going to find pieces that they think are suspect and do that. So, we’ll be doing that this week and then we’ll know if we can dive into that project sooner, if we have to do some kind of abatement.

A little bit further down, Social Services you see in red, we’ve created, Hugh really has created a number of drawings for all of our different flooring projects. You see that red throughout here and we’ve met with different departments and picked out colors and other than needing specifications for some vinyl flooring over at Public Health and for these stair treads out here, we’re just about to turn it over to the Purchasing Department, so they can put that out to bid.

The window replacements, we’re going to tackle this area right here. Those windows have been ordered, they’re probably about 12 weeks out, so we will be doing those replacements ourselves, but so we’re going to tackle that.

We’re also going to move that roof as part of the project, lower it down some and put a regular window in there, too.


MASCARENAS: How many have you done at this point, Jim? I know we just started this a few years ago.   


DOUGAN: We really have just done this back upper of Real Property, is where we’ve started. We’ve been concentrating on the back of this building, because they’re fairly standard windows and they don’t get into historical. We will then go along the front, towards Stewart’s of what is Social Services now.




DOUGAN: But, we’re staying away from the front, just because they’re going to be specialty, they’re large and we might have some historical comments when we start that.


HOLZER: Now, do you have actually wood sills that you put the windows back into or you completely strip it down to the blocks?


DOUGAN: We’re, basically, we’re going all the back down to the brick here, okay? And in most of those cases we’ve been able to order to windows that go back in and we don’t really have to build it back out.


HOLZER: Just caulk it?


DOUGAN: Yup. So, the courthouse roof; we received the roofing submittals, the contractor’s ordering those, so that should be in good shape to move forward this summer.

Replacing the fire alarm panel; Todd, Hugh and some Buildings and Grounds staff have met with All Tech and gotten an updated proposal to replace that, get us back into having a fully working panel, again.

Public Safety Building; I’ll just take a minute there and we’re going to talk more Public Safety Building today, if we can. One of the projects was that replacement of a rooftop unit and as we dug into that in more detail, we found that the company that has had controls for the building, since it was built, is telling us it’s going to cost more to do the controls on that unit than the unit is worth. So, we’re rethinking somethings and that will be something we have more discussion with this Committee in the future. Unlike the court system when we replaced all those rooftop units and we just had to make a few tweaks and it was relatively 6% of the overall cost of the project, they’re saying to do this as we go would be adding another 100% to each rooftop unit. So, we’ve got to look at that. It’s a very proprietary system and we’re going to have to make, I think we need to make some changes to get less proprietary over time, but we won’t go into a full design meeting.

Mental Health; the price of doors has come back very, you know, a lot higher than we expected. The front door at Mental Health, for whatever reason is a 44” door, getting somebody to create that new, you still want it to be heavy duty enough to be commercial, it gets a lot of use, so we’re looking at maybe changing the scope, see if we can put in a 36” door and a sidelight there to make that work in stay within budget. So, that changes that a little bit, especially with how hard it is to get materials lately. Waiting on some detail from Mental Health before we start their work.

The slip lining of the concrete channels down at the Fish Hatchery, Todd’s close on that and we will be putting that out, hopefully the end of this month we’ll get that to Purchasing and they can put that out to bid for us.

The painting of Floral Hall; those specifications are down with Purchasing, so that should be advertised shortly.

DPW; second to last page. Soil and Water; we did complete the phone and data work and we’re getting started to move them from one half of the basement to the other, so we can do the remainder of that work.

And then in that addition we are 95% complete with the boiler. We’re basically waiting for delivery and startup with the propane company.

So, I went pretty quick, if there are any questions?


MCNALLY: Is that bathroom completed in your basement? Did you put a bathroom down there?


DOUGAN: No, that’s in the other half, that’s the area that Soil and Water sits in right now. We have to move them to the front half of the building to start that.


MCNALLY: Is that something you’re going to do this summer you think?


DOUGAN: We’re hoping to do it before. I’m going to use some highway crews before we can fully hit the road. So, hopefully in the next month we’re able to tackle some of that, before they have to get out and the weather’s good and they start paving.


MCNALLY: Excellent report, as always Jimmy.

Anybody else have anything?


MASCARENAS: Jim, are contractors hesitant to commit long term on pricing? Are you finding any of that? 


DOUGAN: A lot of our bids have very short turnover. There’s somethings that we’re trying to do that we bid it as close to when our Full Board meeting is. You’re likely to see me bring more items to Ways and Means or Full Board trying to set those dates that they’re due, real close to when we can actually award it. If we actually receive a bid, right now, okay, I won’t be able to actually award it until May or the first week of April, I guess, if it comes in, but we’re trying to do stuff knowing that they want to get awarded right away to hold their pricing. So, it’s, equipment especially, equipment, things that have steel in them are very, very volatile, right now.


MCNALLY: Have we made any progress on that property Dan, for the pod?


PALMER: I have not.


MCNALLY: And we haven’t done anything with, have we started working on getting the electricity and everything out of the jail building?


DOUGAN: Our Buildings and Grounds guys have spent a little bit of time inside the jail just designating which circuits go where. They haven’t gotten all the way through it. They knew some of it, but there were some really oddball things that they’ve tried to search and how that snow is coming off the ground, Todd, Hugh, that staff is going to do a little bit of work with the GPR unit, once the ground is no longer frozen and see if we can locate somethings on the outside and then Dan and the IT department are getting me a quote from TwinState, so that they can tag all of our data and phone that’s still live between a few different buildings.


MCNALLY: Alright, anything else for facilities?


DOUGAN: That’s what I have for that; okay? If you want to talk about the Public Safety Building?




DOUGAN: Quick report, this is, I didn’t print copies of all of this, but just a reminder of who was here at the end of last year. This is that conceptual master file that we kind of track things, which has kind of all the buildings and things we’re looking for or we’re expecting to hit us in the future and what I did last month was provide you with just a two-page document on the courthouse, which over the past few years is where we’ve focused some dollars on those rooftop unit, some bigger dollars on the rooftop units and the HVAC and the roof, itself. Now, the Public Safety Building is the next place that we’re going to need to focus somethings. It’s our second newest building, 2005 is when it was built, and if you guys will remember my analogy that I gave you, the courthouse or this building I might consider more like a 1976 Chevy Pickup that you can just climb in the engine compartment and take the air filter off and spray a little ether in the carburetor and the thing’s going to run. The Public Safety Building is like today’s electric car, so as soon as we open the hood, we’re going to get bells and whistles and everything goes off and it’s a little harder to work on. And there’s some, as we look at somethings here, there’s some pretty big numbers there. Hugh, do you?


HARWOOD: Right now, we’re at $2.25 million, projected and that doesn’t include the boiler, hot water and the generator.


DOUGAN: Some big projects that are in the future that we think are going to probably have to tackle in the next 5-7 years, from the septic system, sewage system that’s there, the HVAC, the roof, the parking lot, some of those things are really going to add up. So, I just want this Board thinking about it. I don’t have to go into a lot of detail, if you would like to go into detail then I would almost do it system by system, next month maybe come and either discuss the septic system or the rooftop units and what I just described earlier, of how it’s a proprietary control system and we can’t just replace one rooftop at a time. I would prefer to do that, I’d prefer for budgeting purchases to do a little bit at a time and then because they’re going to be depreciating assets then the next time that this has to be done 20 years from now, we’re doing to be one at a time, instead of that great big project, but I can have Todd and Hugh help me with the technical things and give you a more detailed discussion on any of those systems, next time, if you’d like or it’s up to you, Steve.


MCNALLY:  The problem with a new building, like being built in 2005, all the systems age at the same pace, so then all at once you have a $2 million investment to get you back up, where with the older buildings we replaced things, so we’re coming up to $300,000.00 - $400,000.00 a year. So, this is something we have to be concerned about where that money’s going to come from, because possibly we could have those failures all in the same time period; correct?


DOUGAN: Correct, that’s what we’re trying to be prepared for is exactly that. That’s why we started a rooftop, we started replacing the rooftops. The one we’ve had the most trouble with is over the 911 Center and relatively one of the smallest units we have, we were going to tackle it this year, it hadn’t totally failed, but it has been starting to nickel and dime us, so we thought it would be a good place to start and then you know making the control system talk to that unit, while still keeping the other 10 units, there’s 11 there, keeping those others still talking is almost as expensive as the rooftop itself. So, and it’s a very proprietary system and I would really like to get us to something that we could do more maintenance on ourselves. You know, you guys have helped me hire people like Todd and Hugh, here, who are, you know Todd’s, obviously a licensed PE. Hugh went to school for mechanical engineering, to have that staff and have that ability here, we’d like to be able to do some of it ourselves, rather than consistently relying on contractors.


MCNALLY: Dan, what do you recommend for funding this $2 million; which in 5 years could be $3 million? Is it something that you put a fund together like we have with the equipment in DPW or is this something that we just take from budgeted funds?


PALMER: I believe at this point we would have to take from reserves. You know, probably what you would do is target something during each budget year, you know and I’ll offset it with some reserve, so depending on where it impacts the levy.


DOUGAN: I haven’t built that plan, yes, like we built on some other things, but it’s becoming a priority. That building, even though it’s the second newest building we got, a lot of people, I think still think of it as new, but it’s getting to that point.


MCNALLY: It makes retirement sound like a pretty good option.

Okay, anything else, Jimmy?


DOUGAN: That’s what I’ve got, unless somebody else has questions for us on anything?


MCNALLY: Anybody have anything for Jimmy or Dan or the committee?

I guess we’re all set then.


DOUGAN: Do you want us to come with a little more detail on some of those systems next month or are you guys not really interested in our engineering speak?


MASCARENAS: I think it would be helpful. I know, Todd, I’ve talked to him about the sand beds. It seems like you might have gotten them stabilized from the situation we were in, but I know that’s absolutely a problem.


HODGSON: I think it would be good to look at it from a planning standpoint.




HODGSON: You know whether or not the County applies for funding for some of these items.




HODGSON: Divided individually I think these maybe applications.


MASCARENAS: You make a good point, yeah.


HODGSON: Especially the sewage treatment and things.


MASCARENAS: Yeah, NYSERDA and those types of things sometimes opportunities come up, if you look at it from a, break it down into the minutia, not so much a holistic standpoint.


MCNALLY: Would that sewer system go through ARPA?


PALMER: It could.


MCNALLY: It could?




MCNALLY: It would be a good investment for that.


MASCARENAS: I think essentially, you probably need a whole other sand bag, right, Todd? So, you can take them offline, is pretty much what you need there. So, they get rest time, kind of like your situation in Wadhams that you had where your sand bags were just getting hammered. The ability to take them offline and let rest and settle was an issue.


DOUGAN: We saved it from complete failure, twice. It was that close and Todd and Jed up there were able to move somethings around, but that’s system is kind of remission right now, if I was going to use a term and it’s going to come back.


HOLZER: Is the drainage sand or stone?


HODGSON: Both sand and stone.




MASCARENAS: And the facility being 24/7 operation the way it is, that going down is catastrophic.


HOLZER: What kind of holding tanks do we have there?


MASCARENAS: I don’t know that answer.


HODGSON: We wouldn’t have very long. It would be basically…


DOUGAN: You’ve got a couple of pump stations and some of those things, you know we can definitely, if this committee wants to take a…


DELORIA: Jimmy, how many bathrooms are in that facility?


PALMER: Every cell.


DOUGAN:  In a couple of pods, not every pod is that way, but some of the pods have one in every cell.


DELORIA: Are they water conserving systems?


MASCARENAS: We did add that to the showers.


DELORIA: Years ago they had a 10-gallon tank to, you know, flush pee. Today’s systems are different.


DOUGAN: Some of those have been replaced, but a lot of it is 2005 technology. So, it’s not as water conservation as it once was.


DELORIA: So, that would certainly help.


DOUGAN: Some of it is also, it’s also anti-clog technology, too, because there’s such tendency to put rags, bed things, stuff like that. You know the other thing is and some people will recall, there was a report that Todd did, 3-4 years ago where we had a major backup in one of the pods. We actually have to flush that once every other week at 63-64 gallons a minute, because there’s bellies in the pipe underneath the concrete floors when that was built and in order to keep that from happening. So, we, we’ll use quite a bit of extra water in just some of those things.


TYLER: Todd, what kind of system is that?


HODGSON: It’s a varied version of what you have.


TYLER: In Wadhams?


HODGSON: Yeah, and so this facility isn’t too much different in size than actually to what serves Wadhams.


TYLER: What kind of disinfection?


HODGSON: There isn’t, because it’s a groundwater discharge.




MASCARENAS: Is there data on that system at all, in terms of usage? I mean the population’s been down in terms of inmates, it’s probably helping that system somewhat, I would think.


HODGSON: Yeah, I’m very glad that we’re not at capacity.


MASCARENAS: So, I guess and there probably isn’t, right, in terms of flow and that kind of thing.


HODGSON: There’s some data that we can keep.


DOUGAN: We could correlate water usage.


HOLZER: We must have a meter in there that shows us.


MASCARENAS: Well, we just got one; right?


DOUGAN: Well, we just moved one to outside, that covers all the water that comes through there.




DOUGAN: But, there has been a meter inside the building for years.




DOUGAN: So, we could correlate that usage, if you would like. It’s pretty close, right?


MCNALLY: Alrighty.


DOUGAN: So, we’ll bring a few details next month and we’ll stick on the Public Safety Building, we won’t move to a different building yet, just bring a few more details.


MCNALLY: Alright, thank you very much. 







Respectively Submitted,




Dina Garvey, Deputy Clerk

Board of Supervisors