Buildings and Facilities Task Force
Monday, April
3, 2023 - 9:00 am
Steve McNally - Chairman
Chairman McNally called
this task force to order at 9:00 am with the following in attendance: Stephanie
DeZalia, Derek Doty, Shaun Gillilland, Roy Holzer, Steve McNally, Jim Monty,
Matt Stanley (9:08), Ike Tyler, Davina Winemiller (9:23), Meg Wood, Mark
Wright, Jim Dougan, and Mike Mascarenas. Noel Merrihew was absent.
Also present: Andrew Stanley, Dina Garvey, Anna Reynolds and
Elizabeth Lee.
MCNALLY: Jimmy, what’d
got?
DOUGAN: We can start,
I’ll have Andrew start. Andrew and Anna can talk about what’s gone on this
month on the Youth and Ag Center building.
STANLEY, ANDREW: Just do
a quick update on the Youth/Ag. Schedule we’re at, week 9, we’re staying right
on track pretty good, so far. We had a conference call with three reps from
R&D, last week. So, we reviewed our schedule and they were onboard, they
said it’s very doable, which we were kind of skeptical about, cramming a lot in
there, but they seemed pretty happy with it. A couple of questions we asked,
the use ARPA funds, just made sure there was no red flags. That’s good to go,
no problems there and then NWBE requirements. there’s no requirements with this
grant.
DOUGAN: We’ve got to go
just one step further with that. The Board, a couple months ago, passed parts
of our purchasing policy regarding federal moneys. So, we do need to submit
that recent language to them to see whether they need that included or not,
because this is federal money and it would add requirements, but if RD isn’t
required to do that we’ll have to have that discussion with the, why add the
requirements if RD doesn’t have it, unless our Board or this committee feels
that we still need to add them. That’s still another question to ask.
MASCARENAS: And NWB, just
so everybody knows, is typically a State requirement and there is no State
money infused into this project, but it’s a great question to ask, always.
STANLEY, ANDREW: Sure,
sure, I mean not know where the money comes from, that’s why we asked these
questions.
MASCARENAS: Yup, yup
STANLEY, ANDREW: Did you
want to go over some of the application?
REYNOLDS: Sure, the
agency, certain environmental agencies have their own separate consultation
requirement. So I submitted the Adirondack Park Agency jurisdictional form. US
Fish and Wildlife has a seven-step mapping consultation process, so I submitted
that. State Historical Preservation Office, when we had our call with RD, has
said get in early, because I was a little skeptical if, should we wait until we
have more of a final design or should we start that process early and he
suggested, start now. Then the Tribal Historic Preservation Office has their
letter in, so those requirements, 30-day review or so. So, they’re pending now.
The SEQR, I completed the forms, I completed the cover letter, but I did want
to review it with Dan Manning, real quick, before I send it out, just to make
sure I have the language correct and so that will be another 30-day review, but
in terms of our timeline, it works with the RFP and the architecture process.
DOTY: Anna, could you
explain why we have to do the long form as opposed to the short?
REYNOLDS: Because of the Type
1 determination. So, Type 1 is typically a long form, because it allows you to
answer more of the detailed questions. So, if you look at the forms themselves.
A short form won’t even have anything on the historical determinations of
properties.
DOTY: Short forms are
generally a formality.
REYNOLDS: Probably, if
it’s unlisted so it doesn’t meet certain criteria or if it’s a Type 2.
DOTY: Okay
REYNOLDS: Then it’s a
formality, but I just want to cover our bases with a Type 1 to make sure that
someone didn’t say, hey, this triggered a Type 1, why didn’t you do it?
DOTY: Thank you
STANLEY, ANDREW:
Submissions for RFP, for the architectural engineer are due April 13th,
so the next time we meet; we will have all the submission and make a decision
on that.
DOUGAN: Yeah, we’ll
hopefully be able to give you a recommendation to go through this board and if
you guys agree, we can take it to full board to award.
STANLEY, ANDREW: And
that’s all I have.
DOUGAN: Other questions
on it, in the next month other than the architectural engineering, we’re going
to start some conversations with you and you’re staff and Soil and Water to
promote, you know, get some preliminary work done, even before we hire the
architect.
Are there any other
questions on the Youth and Ag Building, right now?
MCNALLY: Yeah, to keep on
schedule, this meeting waiting until May, is that in our best interest or shall
we meet earlier?
DOUGAN: I think we’re
okay, if we can award, if I can make a recommendation to you at this meeting
and then you bring it to Full Board to award that. You know the process with a,
this is really a RFQ/RFP here. So, first what is going to happen is the, every
one of these firms that proposes is going to provide two envelopes in their
bid. One will be a qualification statement which will be reviewed by my staff
for qualifications and then the cost scoring will be done by the Purchasing and
put a certain amount of points to both. So, that will take a little bit of
time. We may even need to interview one
or more of these firms, if we haven’t met with them before to really get their
qualifications. So, we’re going to have to move fairly quickly at the first of
May, the first Monday in May to bring you recommendations, so that’s just about
enough time to get it done.
MCNALLY: So, you’ve had
people ask questions? How many firms are involved in this right now?
DOUGAN: We have. I’ve
received questions from three, so far. I don’t know.
STANLEY, ANDREW: I mean
plan holders, there’s probably eight. It seems like maybe three, at this point.
DOUGAN: Are very
interested.
STANLEY, ANDREW: Yup
DOUGAN: So, if we’re all
set with that one, with the passing of the ARPA plan. One of the next projects
that we need to spend some significant time on is the Old Jail demo. There’s
quite a few parts and pieces to it. Andrew has put together somethings to discuss
and maybe get a few answers, hopefully today or in the near future.
STANLEY, ANDREW: Okay,
the first thing is will the Probation Building be going with the demo of the
Old Jail?
MASCARENAS: For me it’s a
hard no.
STANLEY, ANDREW: Yup
MASCARENAS: Simply
because we don’t have enough space now.
STANLEY, ANDREW: That is
what I assumed, but I’ve just got to ask the question.
MASCARENAS: Just so
everybody knows and I’m glad you brought it up. We’ve absolutely need to answer
those questions, because some of that is going to be required, relocating,
etc., while we do some of that demolition, of certain individuals, but there is
a connection. Anybody who’s walked on the side there, there’s a piece that
connects the Probation Department to the Jail.
DOUGAN: They are two
separate structures.
MONTY: My question would
be, what’s the structural integrity of Probation, is it in bad shape in that
regard?
MASCARENAS: I would say
average. Not structure, I think there’s some cosmetic.
STANLEY, ANDREW: Yeah, I
mean it’s old.
MONTY: Like every other
building outside of the palace of Judge Meyer’s house.
DOUGAN: Even the single
story connection between the old jail and the former sheriff’s residence, where
Probation is now, you can tell by the age of the brick that it was built after
the fact. So, we should be able to separate the two.
WOOD: Where do we plan on
putting them?
MASCARENAS: We don’t. we
don’t have anything right now, I think that’s why we need to have these
discussions to know who’s going to complete what task and what we’re going to
do. We simply don’t have any space right now at all, so we need to figure all
that out and you see in the side that DSS is only, maybe 10 foot, at most. You
can see the roofline of that other building, right there between the old jail
and the new jail.
DOUGAN: Yeah, Andrew’s
going to show us an overhead view a little bit later that we also get into
that. So, I think, does everybody agree with what Mike said? That is a no;
we’re going to leave the Probation building? I think we thought that, but we
just wanted an answer to the question.
STANLEY, ANDREW: Yeah, I
mean the rest of this is all with the assumption that it was staying, but I
wanted to ask the question.
MASCARENAS: Makes sense.
STANLEY, ANDREW: So, the
pod, probably the first thing that has to be addressed with that is the
relocation of the Board of Elections voting machines. What are the storage
needs? Number of machines? Basically, the area, the space needed to store them?
Space requirements; what electrical requirements will there be? Does it need to
be backup generator protected? HVAC and security requirements? Then the
training needs, what does the space need to offer as far as training and moving
the voting machines?
DOUGAN: So, the existing
pod is about 2,300 sq. ft. and at certain times of the year, Board of Elections
does use it to do a little bit of training to some of the poll workers, I
guess. I don’t know if they do a lot of training other than that, but just the
poll workers.
MASCARENAS: Technician’s,
pretty much, that’s what it’s for. The people that are servicing the machines,
those types of things.
DOUGAN: So, Mike has
already been speaking with Board of Elections. We will have some kind of
meeting on some of these things. We think we know some of the answers, already.
That those units, there’s 33 of them, isn’t that how many they just ordered,
new?
MASCARENAS: Yeah
DOUGAN: And they do want
them, basically plugged in at all times and the space needs to be conditioned.
It can’t have really warm temperatures or really cold temperatures. We know
that whenever the space is entered, it has to be both a republican and democrat
representative that have to go together to do. So, we know a number of those
things, but I think even the bigger question for this group is, do we have to
store the machines and have that ability for training in exactly the same
space?
MASCARENAS: Jim, can you
speak to or Andrew speak to the current condition of the pod? We had talked
about in the past, relocating the pod. How can we do that? My feeling is, I’m
not sure we can do that or maybe we maybe could, but it’s going to cost an
awful a lot of money to do it. Looks like maybe it had been remodeled, can you
guys explain that a little bit, please?
DOUGAN: I can speak to it
a little bit. It is, you know, similar to a mobile home, but it’s wider than a
double wide, which makes me believe that there were three separate units that
were moved here. So, you know, on each side there’s a certain amount of
structural integrity, because of the outside, you know the wall that goes,
longitude, let’s say, but in that center unit it appears that it must have been
remodeled because there’s no interior walls. So, you have zero lateral bracing.
So, I don’t know how we would move it up and down the road, because it’s going
to be like that cardboard box that you’ve taken the top and the bottom off of
and you set it here and it just flops one way or another. In looking at the
roof, it’s a rubber membrane roof, there are no, there’s no expansion joints or
anything. So, somebody put a whole new rubber roof over the top of it. So, by
the time you start doing those things, I don’t know what you’re going to have
left. We have not gone underneath it, to look at what the steel frame that
carries it might be. It’s been there for 25 years or something like that.
MASCARENAS: Early 2000s.
DOUGAN: So, I don’t know
if it and finding somebody to move that, these days is going to be
questionable.
MASCARENAS: And we didn’t
buy it new, just so you know.
DOUGAN: We did not buy it
new.
MASCARENAS: We got it
from Warren County.
MONTY: And I know this is
a crazy thought, but there’s no documentation on how this got here and who set
it up or did it just magically appear with pixie dust?
MASCARENAS: It came from
Warren County. I think we paid not a lot of money for it at the time. It was
maybe $20,000.00-$25,000.00 at most. They used it as a jail. When our jail got
condemned, essentially, the lower level, that was the solution. We brought that
jail in.
MONTY: Right
MASCARENAS: I was a Youth
Bureau worker at the time, so I don’t know the specifics of what you’re
necessarily asking or know if there’s any documentation to support what you’re
asking. What is know is it was never meant to be a long-term solution or a
long-term…
MONTY: I understand that,
but I’m just saying and I agree with Jim, it was probably done in three pieces.
MASCARENAS: I’m guessing
or it wouldn’t have fit.
MONTY: Was the third
piece something that we added to it, here in Essex County or did it come that
way?
MASCARENAS: No, it came
that way. I think we took out some interior walls.
STANLEY, ANDREW: Yeah
MONTY: You probably made
it as a dormitory style.
DOUGAN: It is just under
36’ wide, which you know, if you have a mobile home or have a double wide,
they’re usually 24’ wide. They’re usually 2-12 foot sections.
MONTY: Right
DOUGAN: So, it tells me that’s
how they moved it up and down the road, but they’ve done some kind of
remodeling, because that lateral bracing, that interior walls is gone.
HOLZER: So, if this
building’s not moveable, because originally we were talking about moving it to
the end of the lot for a while, what’s the suggestions of where we would store
Board of Election material? Are we going to look at like renting a place from
Moriah Shock to throw the equipment in for now, or what are we doing?
DOUGAN: Well, that’s,
even before I got there, that’s why I was asking this committee and we do have
to work with Board of Elections, if we could have one area that’s just about
storing 33 machines; okay? And another area that’s about their training?
Because, it sounds like the training that they need is limited times of the
year. It’s not full-time, so we have other places, like the Public Safety
Building, where I think the training could be done, but it’s not in the same
area. So, if we could, I think that leaves a lot more flexibility, if the
part-time training they need done could be done in other areas.
MASCARENAS: I’ve been in
communications with the Commissioners about this and basically what we need to
do is have a sub-group of this group that has more tasks related type meetings
to start getting the ball rolling. I’ve asked them to part of the solution and
help us determine where these things are going to go and how we can operate
moving forward. We also have to include County Clerk’s office. The Old Jail has
a lot of records in right now that are going to need to be figured out.
DOUGAN: Some are
permanent records for District Attorney or Public Defender.
TYLER: One time we rented
part of Etown school, didn’t we? We did that, didn’t we?
MASCARENAS: Not that I’m
aware of.
TYLER: I thought we did.
MASCARENAS: We talked
about it, at one point.
TYLER: Maybe a
conversation with those guys, seeing how there’s two schools now. They might some
open space over there now or they could make open space.
MASCARENAS: That’s a really
good suggestion, actually.
TYLER: Thank you, that’s
what I’m here for.
MCNALLY: So, at the end
of the day, the pod has to be included in the demolition.
MASCARENAS: We can’t get
to the building without either relocating that pod…
MCNALLY: So, the pod
should be included in that demolition?
MASCARENAS: Yes
MCNALLY: I mean, even if
you moved it, you’re still looking at, what are you going to have when you’re
all done setting up.
MASCARENAS: I think the
close to relocate would be as much as replacing it.
WOOD: Yes
MASCARENAS: We are going
to ask, I’m asking Jim to get me a bid on something similar. To get some
estimates on similar style structure, 2,300 sq. ft., mobile structure, just to
see what it is.
MCNALLY: Did we ever
purchase that piece of land?
MASCARENAS: No, we did
not.
MCNALLY: Now far did the negotiations
go on that?
HOLZER: The price was I
think for about an acre was high.
MASCARENAS: Yeah, I don’t
know, I can ask Dan Manning.
WOOD: Do you have a rough
estimate, in your head of how much the County paid for that originally?
MASCARENAS: I think it
was somewhere between $15,000.00 and $25,000.00. It was a used building from
Warren County.
WOOD: Okay and it’s been
over 20 years?
MASCARENAS: Yeah
DOUGAN: We got our life
out of it.
MCNALLY: Yeah
MASCARENAS: Yes, but then
there’s always where’s the property, where are we going to relocate it, that
kind of thing. We’re not, we don’t have an abundance of space, for sure. If
anything, it’s the other way around. We’re really struggling for space, but at
the same time we have opportunity to take of that jail and we need to do it and
make it work. So, it’s not if, we’re going to have to do it and we’re going to
figure out how to do it or the jail’s going to sit there for another 20 years.
DOUGN: So, we actually,
the way we set this up is we’ve come up with three or four different projects
that we’ve kind of got to tackle here and so the pod is in and of itself, a
project that we’re looking at or the relocation of Board of Elections equipment
and training space is kind of one project and yes, we could potentially demo it
with the rest of the building, but the other portions of this need to be done
even before we bring a contractor in for that. In our mind to spend the money
by the end of next year, to use the ARPA funds by the end of next year, we need
to be dealing with the pod by the end of this year and a few of the other
projects that Andrew’s going to show you.
MONTY: And I think
throwing more work on top of you, Jim, is taking down the pod something that
DPW could do?
DOUGAN: If other things
are out of there, sure. I don’t think that would be and it might be better to
get it out of there ahead of time.
MONTY: Right, that is
what I was thinking.
DOUGAN: So, we’ve got
sewer tanks underneath it, portions of it, at least. We need to, before we
start demolition, we’ve got to identify the outside edges of those things, so
that the contractor know what we’ve got. They were put in long ago that I don’t
know if that they’re rated for heavy equipment and things like that on them.
You know, things have all changed since those we originally put in. So, just
more things that we’ve got to figure out and that’s going to be the place where
we access everything.
MCNALLY: So, the priority
now is to find a relocation area for these people. We can’t do anything until
we get that established.
DOUGAN: There’s a few
other things that I think we can do, but this one has a lot of moving parts, so
that’s why we’re mentioning it first.
STANLEY, ANDREW: Some
additional considerations that Mike touched on a little bit, was the records,
but also County Coroner. They have a small area set up in the jail. I don’t
know how much they use it, but they do have an area set up there. So, figure
out whether they need to space.
TYLER: I heard a rumor
that the State Police were going to go to the Moriah Shock facility. I heard
that rumor that they were looking at that going there, because they didn’t want
to pay any more money to stay here.
MCNALLY: That would
actually be ideal for us.
DOUGAN: It would solve a
lot of it.
MASCARENAS: We got a
letter back from them, last week. I think they heard what we’ve been talking
about and now they’re fine with the rental, the amount. I’ve heard the same
rumor you have, but that’s not necessarily.
MONTY: What I was told,
recently, the amount of money it would cost them to run the dispatch down there
far outweighs what we’re asking for rental.
MASCARENAS: It does.
TYLER: But, we’re dealing
with New York State.
MASCARENAS: But, it would
solve a lot of problems. There’s 12,000 sq. ft. in that structure.
MCNALLY: Does Moriah have
the infrastructure to support their computer systems down there?
MONTY: That’s the thing,
they have to put everything in there.
DOUGAN: So, we could.
This is a project that we could work on even while we’re figuring out the pod,
but there are a lot of records stored there still. Most of them, I believe, are
permanent records from both Public Defender and the District Attorney. There
are somethings that are in that area in between the two buildings that are
County Clerk’s, as well and so we’ll obviously have to meet with all three of
those groups to find out what can go, what can stay, you know what they have to
keep permanently. We could do that ahead of time, it’s just another piece of
moving this.
MASCARENAS: So, prior to
next meeting I will have set up something where we have a meeting with those
groups and have those discussions with them on what we need to move.
MCNALLY: That was a great
idea about seeing if we can get some space out of the school. But, also Westport school would be adequate,
too.
MASCARENAS: Yeah
MCNALLY: Either, it
doesn’t have to be in Elizabethtown.
MASCARENAS: Well, that’s
what we need to know. In my mind, you’re absolutely right. I don’t know if
Board of Elections how often they access it. How readily available it has to be
and unfortunately there probably still is going to be a level of inconvenience
that has to happen for people. I mean lack of a better option at this time;
we’re going to have to be inconvenience on some level. It is what it is.
STANLEY, ANDREW: Go to
the next project; the utility relocations. We have water, electrical, sewer and
communication that’s got to be moved. We have done some investigation with the
communication and what is obsolete, what’s in use has pretty much been
determined. It’s just going to be a matter of relocating those, people are
going to have to be offline for a short period of time, put together a plan for
that.
This is a little map of
the existing utilities, it’s pretty much everything. Water and electrical comes
from Treasurer’s, into the Old Jail and then into Probation and you can see the
green is the sewer. it’s directly under that pod. It comes through the Old Jail
and then into Probation. I just got some pictures of all the panels we would
have to deal with.
DOUGAN: So, our Buildings
and Grounds staff, along with some engineering, they pretty much determined
what we can do, assuming we’re leaving Probation. There’s actually two
electrical services that come in on Probation on the wall that’s adjacent to
the courthouse and so we’ve already kind of figured out what lines, what circuits
we’ll be able to take off and redo some of those panels that you see there, are
a little messy there and pull everything from the pod and the Old Jail down and
then redo those panels which will actually fill up a little bit of space. Some
of those panels that are in the Probation building are even running circuits
that are over in the Treasurer’s office and those are some pretty pictures
there.
STANLEY, ANDREW: It’s
hard to see, but some of those labels are…
DOUGAN: So, electric I
would say we have pretty well figured out. Communications, there’s fire alarm.
There’s a little bit of fiber that runs through these tunnels, basically, that
are connecting the Treasurer’s Office and then all the way over to the
courthouse. So, those things are all going to have to be relocated. That should
be a project that’s done before we bring a demolition contractor in and again,
something that we’ve got to shoot to do by the end of the this year in order to
be ready to demo it, next year or by spring of next year before we do
demolition.
MCNALLY: You know, ten
years ago we were worried about spending $200,000.00 and now we’re, ten years
later we’re talking $800,000.00. So, you know there is a fatigue part of this,
that you get sick of dealing with the same thing over and over again. So, while
we really aggressively, now with the ARPA funds we aggressively have to get
this now, I think. This is the time to do it.
DOUGAN: On this plan, the
corner of the pod towards the courthouse, up there, just in that area, is
always where the pump station for the courthouse, the sewer pump station is, which
is a project that we’re doing this year, that we specifically budgeted and then
there’s also a pump station over here, next to, into that alcove area. So,
there’s two pump stations that we’re doing this year. Right now, our set of
plans which should be going out to bid in the next 15-20 days, we’ve included
the installation of that proposed, that water valve. We can’t find a main line
valve on this section. So, we’re going to try and put a main line valve in that
feeds that whole area as part of that other project. If we can do that, we at
least have the ability to shut water off without shutting the water off to the
old jail or breaking something as we take that down and having a catastrophic
failure.
MASCARENAS: Quick review
for Board Members, as you get questions about this project in your towns and
what are we doing, what are we thinking. The Board was close to approving a
teardown, several years ago and it got sidetracked and people made movies there
and there were some things that happened and it just didn’t happen and budgets
got the best of us. But, anybody who’s been in the structure and if you
haven’t, I encourage you to go, look at it. Jim has been giving tours with
those that are asked over the last couple of weeks. The structure is really
held up by the bars themselves. The interior structure of that facility is the
steel bars. It goes right up from floor to right up through the top of that
structure and there really is no other use for that structure. There’s nothing
you can do. If there was, we’d do it and we’d have our space problem solved. If
you also look that, while we don’t have a plan for a new structure, right now,
we’re kind of on hold with some of those conversations that have been ongoing
with the school and whatnot, you can see it takes up a large part of our
footprint. So, with our current space needs and lack thereof, we don’t even
have the opportunity to expand on our main campus. That project gives us the
opportunity for some option moving forward. So, should we not end up with the
school or those kinds of things, planning on what happens, we could then, at
least have a space where we could consider building something.
MCNALLY: At one time we
were discussing a Social Services building there?
MASCARENAS: Correct, yeah
a Social Services building. The reason why you discussed that at the time is it
would be the most cost effective, because of the State’s model. So, you’re
essentially doing the State’s work for them in DSS and they have a depreciation
model in terms of funding that you automatically get over a period of time. The
current space that DSS occupies has been fully depreciated. You’re not getting
anything on that at this time, but have you built a new structure, over twenty
years you would certainly get back a large amount of that money.
MCNALLY: 90% or
something?
MASCARENAS: It goes down
every year, there’s a couple of different options that you have. So, I think
they give us, what a model where it was maybe 50% and then another that was 75%
depending on what you, how you determine to depreciate that access, because
there’s a couple of different. Venesky did that for us a few years back and we
still have that information, but it does give us more options and not doing that
now would not be in our best interest. We need to figure out how to get that to
the ground and again, if you haven’t been in there, go see it.
STANLEY, ANDREW: You can
just see here, want the plan is for relocating, just taking everything out of
the old jail and going into Probation with the power and the water and then
rerouting the sewer around the old jail. This will have to happen before,
obviously, can’t take the old jail down until this stuff’s moved.
Asbestos abatement; we’ve
been tossing back and forth whether it should be separate contract from the
demo or not and if so, we need to get the records and stuff moved ASAP.
MASCARENAS: My feeling
is, yes, Andrew.
STANLEY, ANDREW: Okay
MASCARENAS: I’ll tell you
why. When we take that building down, if we do the abatement on the front end,
we don’t have to dispose of it like it’s all asbestos; correct?
DOUGAN: We may still have
to deal with lead, but if the asbestos is gone and the building, we can still
get to the asbestos. The asbestos is this is actually fairly limited. There’s a
few pipe fittings and things in the basement that have friable asbestos in it
and then there’s a floor or two that have some tile and then there’s a lot of
window caulk and a sink that has some coating on the bottom of it. There’s not
a lot, but we already have, further on in Andrew’s presentation it shows you
parts of the survey that were already done by Atlantic Testing. So, we’ve
already identified that. We can put that out to bid and we can do that as soon
as the records that are stored on the first and second floor, the boxes that
are there, as soon as those are dealt with we could do an asbestos project,
even before we got into utilities and other things and the biggest reason those
would need to be moved is the window caulk. Once they take, they’re going to
take the windows out when they do it. So, the building which is already leaking
pretty bad as it is, will leak even more when the windows are gone. So, that’s
one project and I would agree we should do the asbestos itself and it get it
done and out of the way.
MCNALLY: Are we taking
1,000 boxes, 5,000 boxes?
DOUGAN: No, you’re
talking 300 boxes, maybe 200 boxes.
MASCARENAS: Yeah, mostly
the main level.
DOUGAN: Mostly the main
level
MASCARENAS: Of the
cellblocks.
MCNALLY: That’s doable.
DOUGAN: Yeah
MCNALLY: We can hide them
somewhere.
DOUGAN: So, if people
agree I think that’s almost that we do that as it’s own separate project.
That’s an answer that we could probably do today and just move towards moving
those records.
STANLEY, ANDREW: This is
the first floor, I believe most of this is some patching on the wall from tar
patch and then here’s all the windows. The windows pretty much has the glazing
and there’s a couple of areas with some floor tile and then the sink and that’s
it.
Just some considerations,
too. As we get closer to construction for demo. Maintenance and protection for
pedestrians and traffic and then our adjacent facilities. It’s going to noisy
and we’re looking at possible relocation for certain phases of the demo. These
are the areas, they’re close.
HOLZER: What kind of a
timeline are you looking at before the demo actually starts to take place?
STANLEY: It really
depends on the contractor and you know means and methods. That will kind of be
up to them for the most part. How they decide to take it down, but I would say
maybe a week to two weeks where, you know, these people may have to relocate.
DOUGAN: Yeah, two
different things that we’re talking about. One is safety and the other is
noise, okay and dust. So, safety wise, do we want people in those adjacent structures
when this is first coming down?
HOLZER: No
DOUGAN: Probably not. So,
when it’s a big pile of rubble laying on the ground, can they be back in those
spaces? They can for safety reasons, but they’re still going to be disturbed
with that big equipment moving outside. You know those are all things for us to
discuss. You know I think Andrew’s right, probably a couple of weeks to get
this into a big pile of rubble on the ground and I think the contractor’s going
to be onsite ahead of time. You know, there’s lead, all those bars are painted
with lead paint, all the interior walls are painted with lead paint. We are, we
have stayed away from testing the exact thickness of that lead paint, because
if we just test the paint it will be of such a high concentration that we would
have to look at the whole place as a lead abatement. However, that little bit
of lead paint on the outside of brick wall that is a foot think or 16” thick is
such a small composite that that material, that hard fill is probably able to get
rid of anywhere. Which saves us a lot of money. So, we’re still working with
Atlantic Testing on exactly that information, but cutting the bars; which as
Mike described is the structural component is going to probably require a lead
abatement at every spot that they cut the bars. So, I see them coming in
similar to when we see a building imploded on TV. They’re going to come in
ahead of time and they’re going to have to do these little abatements to cut
certainly things, before they tear it down. So, we have a lot of things to
figure out. I’m just going based on past experiences. You know anybody that can
remember Champlain Center South, it was me that tore that down, by accident,
but I tore it down. So, it’s, there’s a lot of that to figure out, but I don’t
think that we need to start planning for relocation of the court system,
Probation, Treasurer’s first floor and DSS Accounting second floor, at least
for probably a two week period. We’ll know that better, once we have an actual
contractor, but you know I would like to say, if we plan and we move everybody
out, it will come down smooth, it won’t hit any buildings, but if we don’t it
will take all three of them down in a domino effect.
TYLER: I just wanted to
say, Anna’s really busy and I don’t know if she needs to be here to do all of
this, I mean if she’s got work to do.
REYNOLDS: You mean in the
meeting?
TYLER: Yes, this meeting.
REYNOLDS: It’s probably
only 10 more minutes.
MASCARENAS: I wanted her
here for the Ag Building, because they’re handling the grant for the RD.
TYLER: Right, I know.
DOUGAN: So, I think
that’s the end of your presentation?
STANLEY: Yes
DOUGAN: And so we just
really want this group to know all the coordination and some of the decisions
that we’ve got to make in order to make this thing happen, in what is 21 months
from now.
MCNALLY: So, move the pod
contents, got to find a spot for that and move the storage area and we got to
start working on the asbestos abatement, are our priorities, right?
DOUGAN: Yup
MASCARENAS: And I think
what you’re going to see over the next year is that these meetings are going to
become more like this. With all the ARPA projects that we have listed and have
going, we’re going to be trying to move these things forward and discuss some
of the barriers and projects that we have with all of you.
DOUGAN: A couple of other
projects that we have budgeted that are about to go out to bid fairly shorty
like that, that the two pump stations in the back. They’re going to involve
some coordination with staff and blocking off some areas, too. So, as we come
to those, I’m going to be giving you a little bit more detail. Instead of just
these quick rundowns, like I have and what process we’ve made, I’m going to
make you a little bit more involved in those ones that just have a lot more
moving parts and pieces so that you’re aware as we go forward.
STANLEY, MATT: Thinking
about timing for this, instead of trying to relocate everybody in those red
areas, would it behoove us to try to figure this out and get it down around a
holiday, like Christmas to New Year’s, so you could just close those sections
for like a 2-week period to not have to move people, but they wouldn’t be there
if we could close those areas during a major holiday or something.
DOUGAN: We have, not so
much around Christmas/New Year’s, but in-house, you know we have discussed that
it’s been my recollection that the court system, tends to shut down for a
couple of weeks in the summertime. They don’t have much doing on; I was going
to start to look at their schedule for 2024, if it’s available. I feel like our
people, Probation, Treasurer, DSS Accounting are easier to work with than the
court system. Anybody that’s worked with them would probably agree with me, so
I was shooting for the same kind of thought process, but yeah, I think we need
to work on thoughts like that.
MASCARENAS: I think with
Probation I can work out something that works pretty well, based on what we did
during the pandemic with some of those things, so it did prepare us for not
having facilities.
STANLEY, MATT: Silver
lining.
MASCARENAS: Yeah, then
I’m not overly concerned about, even finding a building or anything. I think I
can work that out with their director, personally, and we can figure that out,
how to keep them going. DSS Accounting, we can figure out, that’s not a problem,
but like Jim said, the court’s probably going to be the most difficult
situation and the pod, because of the physical space those machines take up is
going to be, that’s going to be a critical piece. We do have a few options, I
think. We just need to see what will work and what won’t work.
WINEMILLER: The records
that have to be moved out of there. How secure to they have to be and how
confidential are they?
MASCARENAS: I don’t know
the answer to that question, because I don’t know what’s there. I know that
there are some court records and I’m guessing that’s not all that’s there and
whether some can even be disposed of per a normal schedule is also a
possibility. I think doing that is going to help get rid some of those records.
So, those are questions we’ve got to ask. By the next meeting, I’m going to
have meetings with the Clerk’s office, with whoever has records in there,
Elections and we’re going to start figuring what’s exactly in there and what we
need, because you guys all have facilities. Maybe we can figure out something
out close by where we can put those records.
WINEWILLER: I was think
about those, like almost like those recycling trailers that we all have.
MASCARENAS: We’ve done
that before.
DOUGAN: We are renting a
storage building for records, down in New Russia, right now and I do believe
that these particular records they tried to keep away from the area, because
they are a little but more sensitive, but I don’t know to want level, exactly.
I think they’ve kept them away, because they’re a little more sensitive.
GILLILLAND: I heard from
a couple of departments that they may not even be recoverable, because of the
humidity and mold.
MASCARENAS: Could be.
GILLILLAND: So, we have
to get in there and determine that anyway.
MASCARENAS: It’s in rough
shape.
MONTY: I have a location
in Lewis that’s presently unoccupied, that’s heated, dry. In the old Lewis
school, the basement. We call it a basement, but it was three classrooms when
it was a school, that no one’s in right now, that you could possibly move the
records to, like I said, heated and dry.
MASCARENAS: That’s a good
solution.
DOUGAN: Yup.
Rather the 15-20 page
handout that we’ve had in the past, as Mike said, we’re going to try to be a
little bit more detailed on a few of these projects. This is a whiteboard in my
office. This is basically the same projects; it’s a little hard to read. I do
have a handout for everybody, you can take a look at it and it kind of tells
you where we are on all these projects, if we’re in design, if we’re in
construction, we’ve got a proposed bid date, what our current status, who the
contractor is. A lot of the same stuff I’ve been providing to you. I will give
you a copy, if you have questions, call me, ask me next month and rather than
spending my time on that 14-page document, I’m going to, we’re spending a
little more time on the details of these many projects and we’re going to bring
you guys up to date on that.
MCNALLY: That’s fine,
good idea.
Anything else? Okay,
we’re all set.
AS
THERE WAS NO FURTHER BUSINESS TO COME BEFORE THIS BUILDING AND FACILITIES, IT
WAS ADJOURNED AT 9:40 AM
Respectively Submitted,
Dina Garvey, Deputy Clerk
Board of Supervisors