Buildings and Facilities Task Force

Monday, April 3, 2023 - 9:00 am



Steve McNally - Chairman


Chairman McNally called this task force to order at 9:00 am with the following in attendance: Stephanie DeZalia, Derek Doty, Shaun Gillilland, Roy Holzer, Steve McNally, Jim Monty, Matt Stanley (9:08), Ike Tyler, Davina Winemiller (9:23), Meg Wood, Mark Wright, Jim Dougan, and Mike Mascarenas. Noel Merrihew was absent.


Also present: Andrew Stanley, Dina Garvey, Anna Reynolds and Elizabeth Lee.


MCNALLY: Jimmy, whatíd got?


DOUGAN: We can start, Iíll have Andrew start. Andrew and Anna can talk about whatís gone on this month on the Youth and Ag Center building.


STANLEY, ANDREW: Just do a quick update on the Youth/Ag. Schedule weíre at, week 9, weíre staying right on track pretty good, so far. We had a conference call with three reps from R&D, last week. So, we reviewed our schedule and they were onboard, they said itís very doable, which we were kind of skeptical about, cramming a lot in there, but they seemed pretty happy with it. A couple of questions we asked, the use ARPA funds, just made sure there was no red flags. Thatís good to go, no problems there and then NWBE requirements. thereís no requirements with this grant.


DOUGAN: Weíve got to go just one step further with that. The Board, a couple months ago, passed parts of our purchasing policy regarding federal moneys. So, we do need to submit that recent language to them to see whether they need that included or not, because this is federal money and it would add requirements, but if RD isnít required to do that weíll have to have that discussion with the, why add the requirements if RD doesnít have it, unless our Board or this committee feels that we still need to add them. Thatís still another question to ask.


MASCARENAS: And NWB, just so everybody knows, is typically a State requirement and there is no State money infused into this project, but itís a great question to ask, always.


STANLEY, ANDREW: Sure, sure, I mean not know where the money comes from, thatís why we asked these questions.




STANLEY, ANDREW: Did you want to go over some of the application?


REYNOLDS: Sure, the agency, certain environmental agencies have their own separate consultation requirement. So I submitted the Adirondack Park Agency jurisdictional form. US Fish and Wildlife has a seven-step mapping consultation process, so I submitted that. State Historical Preservation Office, when we had our call with RD, has said get in early, because I was a little skeptical if, should we wait until we have more of a final design or should we start that process early and he suggested, start now. Then the Tribal Historic Preservation Office has their letter in, so those requirements, 30-day review or so. So, theyíre pending now. The SEQR, I completed the forms, I completed the cover letter, but I did want to review it with Dan Manning, real quick, before I send it out, just to make sure I have the language correct and so that will be another 30-day review, but in terms of our timeline, it works with the RFP and the architecture process.


DOTY: Anna, could you explain why we have to do the long form as opposed to the short?


REYNOLDS: Because of the Type 1 determination. So, Type 1 is typically a long form, because it allows you to answer more of the detailed questions. So, if you look at the forms themselves. A short form wonít even have anything on the historical determinations of properties.


DOTY: Short forms are generally a formality.


REYNOLDS: Probably, if itís unlisted so it doesnít meet certain criteria or if itís a Type 2.


DOTY: Okay


REYNOLDS: Then itís a formality, but I just want to cover our bases with a Type 1 to make sure that someone didnít say, hey, this triggered a Type 1, why didnít you do it?


DOTY: Thank you


STANLEY, ANDREW: Submissions for RFP, for the architectural engineer are due April 13th, so the next time we meet; we will have all the submission and make a decision on that.


DOUGAN: Yeah, weíll hopefully be able to give you a recommendation to go through this board and if you guys agree, we can take it to full board to award.


STANLEY, ANDREW: And thatís all I have.


DOUGAN: Other questions on it, in the next month other than the architectural engineering, weíre going to start some conversations with you and youíre staff and Soil and Water to promote, you know, get some preliminary work done, even before we hire the architect.

Are there any other questions on the Youth and Ag Building, right now?


MCNALLY: Yeah, to keep on schedule, this meeting waiting until May, is that in our best interest or shall we meet earlier?


DOUGAN: I think weíre okay, if we can award, if I can make a recommendation to you at this meeting and then you bring it to Full Board to award that. You know the process with a, this is really a RFQ/RFP here. So, first what is going to happen is the, every one of these firms that proposes is going to provide two envelopes in their bid. One will be a qualification statement which will be reviewed by my staff for qualifications and then the cost scoring will be done by the Purchasing and put a certain amount of points to both. So, that will take a little bit of time. We may even needto interview one or more of these firms, if we havenít met with them before to really get their qualifications. So, weíre going to have to move fairly quickly at the first of May, the first Monday in May to bring you recommendations, so thatís just about enough time to get it done.


MCNALLY: So, youíve had people ask questions? How many firms are involved in this right now?


DOUGAN: We have. Iíve received questions from three, so far. I donít know.


STANLEY, ANDREW: I mean plan holders, thereís probably eight. It seems like maybe three, at this point.


DOUGAN: Are very interested.




DOUGAN: So, if weíre all set with that one, with the passing of the ARPA plan. One of the next projects that we need to spend some significant time on is the Old Jail demo. Thereís quite a few parts and pieces to it. Andrew has put together somethings to discuss and maybe get a few answers, hopefully today or in the near future.


STANLEY, ANDREW: Okay, the first thing is will the Probation Building be going with the demo of the Old Jail?


MASCARENAS: For me itís a hard no.




MASCARENAS: Simply because we donít have enough space now.


STANLEY, ANDREW: That is what I assumed, but Iíve just got to ask the question.


MASCARENAS: Just so everybody knows and Iím glad you brought it up. Weíve absolutely need to answer those questions, because some of that is going to be required, relocating, etc., while we do some of that demolition, of certain individuals, but there is a connection. Anybody whoís walked on the side there, thereís a piece that connects the Probation Department to the Jail.


DOUGAN: They are two separate structures.


MONTY: My question would be, whatís the structural integrity of Probation, is it in bad shape in that regard?


MASCARENAS: I would say average. Not structure, I think thereís some cosmetic.


STANLEY, ANDREW: Yeah, I mean itís old.


MONTY: Like every other building outside of the palace of Judge Meyerís house.


DOUGAN: Even the single story connection between the old jail and the former sheriffís residence, where Probation is now, you can tell by the age of the brick that it was built after the fact. So, we should be able to separate the two.


WOOD: Where do we plan on putting them?


MASCARENAS: We donít. we donít have anything right now, I think thatís why we need to have these discussions to know whoís going to complete what task and what weíre going to do. We simply donít have any space right now at all, so we need to figure all that out and you see in the side that DSS is only, maybe 10 foot, at most. You can see the roofline of that other building, right there between the old jail and the new jail.


DOUGAN: Yeah, Andrewís going to show us an overhead view a little bit later that we also get into that. So, I think, does everybody agree with what Mike said? That is a no; weíre going to leave the Probation building? I think we thought that, but we just wanted an answer to the question.


STANLEY, ANDREW: Yeah, I mean the rest of this is all with the assumption that it was staying, but I wanted to ask the question.


MASCARENAS: Makes sense.


STANLEY, ANDREW: So, the pod, probably the first thing that has to be addressed with that is the relocation of the Board of Elections voting machines. What are the storage needs? Number of machines? Basically, the area, the space needed to store them? Space requirements; what electrical requirements will there be? Does it need to be backup generator protected? HVAC and security requirements? Then the training needs, what does the space need to offer as far as training and moving the voting machines?


DOUGAN: So, the existing pod is about 2,300 sq. ft. and at certain times of the year, Board of Elections does use it to do a little bit of training to some of the poll workers, I guess. I donít know if they do a lot of training other than that, but just the poll workers.


MASCARENAS: Technicianís, pretty much, thatís what itís for. The people that are servicing the machines, those types of things.


DOUGAN: So, Mike has already been speaking with Board of Elections. We will have some kind of meeting on some of these things. We think we know some of the answers, already. That those units, thereís 33 of them, isnít that how many they just ordered, new?




DOUGAN: And they do want them, basically plugged in at all times and the space needs to be conditioned. It canít have really warm temperatures or really cold temperatures. We know that whenever the space is entered, it has to be both a republican and democrat representative that have to go together to do. So, we know a number of those things, but I think even the bigger question for this group is, do we have to store the machines and have that ability for training in exactly the same space?


MASCARENAS: Jim, can you speak to or Andrew speak to the current condition of the pod? We had talked about in the past, relocating the pod. How can we do that? My feeling is, Iím not sure we can do that or maybe we maybe could, but itís going to cost an awful a lot of money to do it. Looks like maybe it had been remodeled, can you guys explain that a little bit, please?


DOUGAN: I can speak to it a little bit. It is, you know, similar to a mobile home, but itís wider than a double wide, which makes me believe that there were three separate units that were moved here. So, you know, on each side thereís a certain amount of structural integrity, because of the outside, you know the wall that goes, longitude, letís say, but in that center unit it appears that it must have been remodeled because thereís no interior walls. So, you have zero lateral bracing. So, I donít know how we would move it up and down the road, because itís going to be like that cardboard box that youíve taken the top and the bottom off of and you set it here and it just flops one way or another. In looking at the roof, itís a rubber membrane roof, there are no, thereís no expansion joints or anything. So, somebody put a whole new rubber roof over the top of it. So, by the time you start doing those things, I donít know what youíre going to have left. We have not gone underneath it, to look at what the steel frame that carries it might be. Itís been there for 25 years or something like that.


MASCARENAS: Early 2000s.


DOUGAN: So, I donít know if it and finding somebody to move that, these days is going to be questionable.


MASCARENAS: And we didnít buy it new, just so you know.


DOUGAN: We did not buy it new.


MASCARENAS: We got it from Warren County.


MONTY: And I know this is a crazy thought, but thereís no documentation on how this got here and who set it up or did it just magically appear with pixie dust?


MASCARENAS: It came from Warren County. I think we paid not a lot of money for it at the time. It was maybe $20,000.00-$25,000.00 at most. They used it as a jail. When our jail got condemned, essentially, the lower level, that was the solution. We brought that jail in.


MONTY: Right


MASCARENAS: I was a Youth Bureau worker at the time, so I donít know the specifics of what youíre necessarily asking or know if thereís any documentation to support what youíre asking. What is know is it was never meant to be a long-term solution or a long-termÖ


MONTY: I understand that, but Iím just saying and I agree with Jim, it was probably done in three pieces.


MASCARENAS: Iím guessing or it wouldnít have fit.


MONTY: Was the third piece something that we added to it, here in Essex County or did it come that way?


MASCARENAS: No, it came that way. I think we took out some interior walls.




MONTY: You probably made it as a dormitory style.


DOUGAN: It is just under 36í wide, which you know, if you have a mobile home or have a double wide, theyíre usually 24í wide. Theyíre usually 2-12 foot sections.


MONTY: Right


DOUGAN: So, it tells me thatís how they moved it up and down the road, but theyíve done some kind of remodeling, because that lateral bracing, that interior walls is gone.


HOLZER: So, if this buildingís not moveable, because originally we were talking about moving it to the end of the lot for a while, whatís the suggestions of where we would store Board of Election material? Are we going to look at like renting a place from Moriah Shock to throw the equipment in for now, or what are we doing?


DOUGAN: Well, thatís, even before I got there, thatís why I was asking this committee and we do have to work with Board of Elections, if we could have one area thatís just about storing 33 machines; okay? And another area thatís about their training? Because, it sounds like the training that they need is limited times of the year. Itís not full-time, so we have other places, like the Public Safety Building, where I think the training could be done, but itís not in the same area. So, if we could, I think that leaves a lot more flexibility, if the part-time training they need done could be done in other areas.


MASCARENAS: Iíve been in communications with the Commissioners about this and basically what we need to do is have a sub-group of this group that has more tasks related type meetings to start getting the ball rolling. Iíve asked them to part of the solution and help us determine where these things are going to go and how we can operate moving forward. We also have to include County Clerkís office. The Old Jail has a lot of records in right now that are going to need to be figured out.


DOUGAN: Some are permanent records for District Attorney or Public Defender.


TYLER: One time we rented part of Etown school, didnít we? We did that, didnít we?


MASCARENAS: Not that Iím aware of.


TYLER: I thought we did.


MASCARENAS: We talked about it, at one point.


TYLER: Maybe a conversation with those guys, seeing how thereís two schools now. They might some open space over there now or they could make open space.


MASCARENAS: Thatís a really good suggestion, actually.


TYLER: Thank you, thatís what Iím here for.


MCNALLY: So, at the end of the day, the pod has to be included in the demolition.


MASCARENAS: We canít get to the building without either relocating that podÖ


MCNALLY: So, the pod should be included in that demolition?




MCNALLY: I mean, even if you moved it, youíre still looking at, what are you going to have when youíre all done setting up.


MASCARENAS: I think the close to relocate would be as much as replacing it.




MASCARENAS: We are going to ask, Iím asking Jim to get me a bid on something similar. To get some estimates on similar style structure, 2,300 sq. ft., mobile structure, just to see what it is.


MCNALLY: Did we ever purchase that piece of land?


MASCARENAS: No, we did not.


MCNALLY: Now far did the negotiations go on that?


HOLZER: The price was I think for about an acre was high.


MASCARENAS: Yeah, I donít know, I can ask Dan Manning.


WOOD: Do you have a rough estimate, in your head of how much the County paid for that originally?


MASCARENAS: I think it was somewhere between $15,000.00 and $25,000.00. It was a used building from Warren County.


WOOD: Okay and itís been over 20 years?




DOUGAN: We got our life out of it.




MASCARENAS: Yes, but then thereís always whereís the property, where are we going to relocate it, that kind of thing. Weíre not, we donít have an abundance of space, for sure. If anything, itís the other way around. Weíre really struggling for space, but at the same time we have opportunity to take of that jail and we need to do it and make it work. So, itís not if, weíre going to have to do it and weíre going to figure out how to do it or the jailís going to sit there for another 20 years.


DOUGN: So, we actually, the way we set this up is weíve come up with three or four different projects that weíve kind of got to tackle here and so the pod is in and of itself, a project that weíre looking at or the relocation of Board of Elections equipment and training space is kind of one project and yes, we could potentially demo it with the rest of the building, but the other portions of this need to be done even before we bring a contractor in for that. In our mind to spend the money by the end of next year, to use the ARPA funds by the end of next year, we need to be dealing with the pod by the end of this year and a few of the other projects that Andrewís going to show you.


MONTY: And I think throwing more work on top of you, Jim, is taking down the pod something that DPW could do?


DOUGAN: If other things are out of there, sure. I donít think that would be and it might be better to get it out of there ahead of time.


MONTY: Right, that is what I was thinking.


DOUGAN: So, weíve got sewer tanks underneath it, portions of it, at least. We need to, before we start demolition, weíve got to identify the outside edges of those things, so that the contractor know what weíve got. They were put in long ago that I donít know if that theyíre rated for heavy equipment and things like that on them. You know, things have all changed since those we originally put in. So, just more things that weíve got to figure out and thatís going to be the place where we access everything.


MCNALLY: So, the priority now is to find a relocation area for these people. We canít do anything until we get that established.


DOUGAN: Thereís a few other things that I think we can do, but this one has a lot of moving parts, so thatís why weíre mentioning it first.


STANLEY, ANDREW: Some additional considerations that Mike touched on a little bit, was the records, but also County Coroner. They have a small area set up in the jail. I donít know how much they use it, but they do have an area set up there. So, figure out whether they need to space.


TYLER: I heard a rumor that the State Police were going to go to the Moriah Shock facility. I heard that rumor that they were looking at that going there, because they didnít want to pay any more money to stay here.


MCNALLY: That would actually be ideal for us.


DOUGAN: It would solve a lot of it.


MASCARENAS: We got a letter back from them, last week. I think they heard what weíve been talking about and now theyíre fine with the rental, the amount. Iíve heard the same rumor you have, but thatís not necessarily.


MONTY: What I was told, recently, the amount of money it would cost them to run the dispatch down there far outweighs what weíre asking for rental.




TYLER: But, weíre dealing with New York State.


MASCARENAS: But, it would solve a lot of problems. Thereís 12,000 sq. ft. in that structure.


MCNALLY: Does Moriah have the infrastructure to support their computer systems down there?


MONTY: Thatís the thing, they have to put everything in there.


DOUGAN: So, we could. This is a project that we could work on even while weíre figuring out the pod, but there are a lot of records stored there still. Most of them, I believe, are permanent records from both Public Defender and the District Attorney. There are somethings that are in that area in between the two buildings that are County Clerkís, as well and so weíll obviously have to meet with all three of those groups to find out what can go, what can stay, you know what they have to keep permanently. We could do that ahead of time, itís just another piece of moving this.


MASCARENAS: So, prior to next meeting I will have set up something where we have a meeting with those groups and have those discussions with them on what we need to move.


MCNALLY: That was a great idea about seeing if we can get some space out of the school.But, also Westport school would be adequate, too.




MCNALLY: Either, it doesnít have to be in Elizabethtown.


MASCARENAS: Well, thatís what we need to know. In my mind, youíre absolutely right. I donít know if Board of Elections how often they access it. How readily available it has to be and unfortunately there probably still is going to be a level of inconvenience that has to happen for people. I mean lack of a better option at this time; weíre going to have to be inconvenience on some level. It is what it is.


STANLEY, ANDREW: Go to the next project; the utility relocations. We have water, electrical, sewer and communication thatís got to be moved. We have done some investigation with the communication and what is obsolete, whatís in use has pretty much been determined. Itís just going to be a matter of relocating those, people are going to have to be offline for a short period of time, put together a plan for that.

This is a little map of the existing utilities, itís pretty much everything. Water and electrical comes from Treasurerís, into the Old Jail and then into Probation and you can see the green is the sewer. itís directly under that pod. It comes through the Old Jail and then into Probation. I just got some pictures of all the panels we would have to deal with.


DOUGAN: So, our Buildings and Grounds staff, along with some engineering, they pretty much determined what we can do, assuming weíre leaving Probation. Thereís actually two electrical services that come in on Probation on the wall thatís adjacent to the courthouse and so weíve already kind of figured out what lines, what circuits weíll be able to take off and redo some of those panels that you see there, are a little messy there and pull everything from the pod and the Old Jail down and then redo those panels which will actually fill up a little bit of space. Some of those panels that are in the Probation building are even running circuits that are over in the Treasurerís office and those are some pretty pictures there.


STANLEY, ANDREW: Itís hard to see, but some of those labels areÖ


DOUGAN: So, electric I would say we have pretty well figured out. Communications, thereís fire alarm. Thereís a little bit of fiber that runs through these tunnels, basically, that are connecting the Treasurerís Office and then all the way over to the courthouse. So, those things are all going to have to be relocated. That should be a project thatís done before we bring a demolition contractor in and again, something that weíve got to shoot to do by the end of the this year in order to be ready to demo it, next year or by spring of next year before we do demolition.


MCNALLY: You know, ten years ago we were worried about spending $200,000.00 and now weíre, ten years later weíre talking $800,000.00. So, you know there is a fatigue part of this, that you get sick of dealing with the same thing over and over again. So, while we really aggressively, now with the ARPA funds we aggressively have to get this now, I think. This is the time to do it.


DOUGAN: On this plan, the corner of the pod towards the courthouse, up there, just in that area, is always where the pump station for the courthouse, the sewer pump station is, which is a project that weíre doing this year, that we specifically budgeted and then thereís also a pump station over here, next to, into that alcove area. So, thereís two pump stations that weíre doing this year. Right now, our set of plans which should be going out to bid in the next 15-20 days, weíve included the installation of that proposed, that water valve. We canít find a main line valve on this section. So, weíre going to try and put a main line valve in that feeds that whole area as part of that other project. If we can do that, we at least have the ability to shut water off without shutting the water off to the old jail or breaking something as we take that down and having a catastrophic failure.


MASCARENAS: Quick review for Board Members, as you get questions about this project in your towns and what are we doing, what are we thinking. The Board was close to approving a teardown, several years ago and it got sidetracked and people made movies there and there were some things that happened and it just didnít happen and budgets got the best of us. But, anybody whoís been in the structure and if you havenít, I encourage you to go, look at it. Jim has been giving tours with those that are asked over the last couple of weeks. The structure is really held up by the bars themselves. The interior structure of that facility is the steel bars. It goes right up from floor to right up through the top of that structure and there really is no other use for that structure. Thereís nothing you can do. If there was, weíd do it and weíd have our space problem solved. If you also look that, while we donít have a plan for a new structure, right now, weíre kind of on hold with some of those conversations that have been ongoing with the school and whatnot, you can see it takes up a large part of our footprint. So, with our current space needs and lack thereof, we donít even have the opportunity to expand on our main campus. That project gives us the opportunity for some option moving forward. So, should we not end up with the school or those kinds of things, planning on what happens, we could then, at least have a space where we could consider building something.


MCNALLY: At one time we were discussing a Social Services building there?


MASCARENAS: Correct, yeah a Social Services building. The reason why you discussed that at the time is it would be the most cost effective, because of the Stateís model. So, youíre essentially doing the Stateís work for them in DSS and they have a depreciation model in terms of funding that you automatically get over a period of time. The current space that DSS occupies has been fully depreciated. Youíre not getting anything on that at this time, but have you built a new structure, over twenty years you would certainly get back a large amount of that money.


MCNALLY: 90% or something?


MASCARENAS: It goes down every year, thereís a couple of different options that you have. So, I think they give us, what a model where it was maybe 50% and then another that was 75% depending on what you, how you determine to depreciate that access, because thereís a couple of different. Venesky did that for us a few years back and we still have that information, but it does give us more options and not doing that now would not be in our best interest. We need to figure out how to get that to the ground and again, if you havenít been in there, go see it.


STANLEY, ANDREW: You can just see here, want the plan is for relocating, just taking everything out of the old jail and going into Probation with the power and the water and then rerouting the sewer around the old jail. This will have to happen before, obviously, canít take the old jail down until this stuffís moved.

Asbestos abatement; weíve been tossing back and forth whether it should be separate contract from the demo or not and if so, we need to get the records and stuff moved ASAP.


MASCARENAS: My feeling is, yes, Andrew.




MASCARENAS: Iíll tell you why. When we take that building down, if we do the abatement on the front end, we donít have to dispose of it like itís all asbestos; correct?


DOUGAN: We may still have to deal with lead, but if the asbestos is gone and the building, we can still get to the asbestos. The asbestos is this is actually fairly limited. Thereís a few pipe fittings and things in the basement that have friable asbestos in it and then thereís a floor or two that have some tile and then thereís a lot of window caulk and a sink that has some coating on the bottom of it. Thereís not a lot, but we already have, further on in Andrewís presentation it shows you parts of the survey that were already done by Atlantic Testing. So, weíve already identified that. We can put that out to bid and we can do that as soon as the records that are stored on the first and second floor, the boxes that are there, as soon as those are dealt with we could do an asbestos project, even before we got into utilities and other things and the biggest reason those would need to be moved is the window caulk. Once they take, theyíre going to take the windows out when they do it. So, the building which is already leaking pretty bad as it is, will leak even more when the windows are gone. So, thatís one project and I would agree we should do the asbestos itself and it get it done and out of the way.


MCNALLY: Are we taking 1,000 boxes, 5,000 boxes?


DOUGAN: No, youíre talking 300 boxes, maybe 200 boxes.


MASCARENAS: Yeah, mostly the main level.


DOUGAN: Mostly the main level


MASCARENAS: Of the cellblocks.


MCNALLY: Thatís doable.




MCNALLY: We can hide them somewhere.


DOUGAN: So, if people agree I think thatís almost that we do that as itís own separate project. Thatís an answer that we could probably do today and just move towards moving those records.


STANLEY, ANDREW: This is the first floor, I believe most of this is some patching on the wall from tar patch and then hereís all the windows. The windows pretty much has the glazing and thereís a couple of areas with some floor tile and then the sink and thatís it.

Just some considerations, too. As we get closer to construction for demo. Maintenance and protection for pedestrians and traffic and then our adjacent facilities. Itís going to noisy and weíre looking at possible relocation for certain phases of the demo. These are the areas, theyíre close.


HOLZER: What kind of a timeline are you looking at before the demo actually starts to take place?


STANLEY: It really depends on the contractor and you know means and methods. That will kind of be up to them for the most part. How they decide to take it down, but I would say maybe a week to two weeks where, you know, these people may have to relocate.


DOUGAN: Yeah, two different things that weíre talking about. One is safety and the other is noise, okay and dust. So, safety wise, do we want people in those adjacent structures when this is first coming down?




DOUGAN: Probably not. So, when itís a big pile of rubble laying on the ground, can they be back in those spaces? They can for safety reasons, but theyíre still going to be disturbed with that big equipment moving outside. You know those are all things for us to discuss. You know I think Andrewís right, probably a couple of weeks to get this into a big pile of rubble on the ground and I think the contractorís going to be onsite ahead of time. You know, thereís lead, all those bars are painted with lead paint, all the interior walls are painted with lead paint. We are, we have stayed away from testing the exact thickness of that lead paint, because if we just test the paint it will be of such a high concentration that we would have to look at the whole place as a lead abatement. However, that little bit of lead paint on the outside of brick wall that is a foot think or 16Ē thick is such a small composite that that material, that hard fill is probably able to get rid of anywhere. Which saves us a lot of money. So, weíre still working with Atlantic Testing on exactly that information, but cutting the bars; which as Mike described is the structural component is going to probably require a lead abatement at every spot that they cut the bars. So, I see them coming in similar to when we see a building imploded on TV. Theyíre going to come in ahead of time and theyíre going to have to do these little abatements to cut certainly things, before they tear it down. So, we have a lot of things to figure out. Iím just going based on past experiences. You know anybody that can remember Champlain Center South, it was me that tore that down, by accident, but I tore it down. So, itís, thereís a lot of that to figure out, but I donít think that we need to start planning for relocation of the court system, Probation, Treasurerís first floor and DSS Accounting second floor, at least for probably a two week period. Weíll know that better, once we have an actual contractor, but you know I would like to say, if we plan and we move everybody out, it will come down smooth, it wonít hit any buildings, but if we donít it will take all three of them down in a domino effect.


TYLER: I just wanted to say, Annaís really busy and I donít know if she needs to be here to do all of this, I mean if sheís got work to do.


REYNOLDS: You mean in the meeting?


TYLER: Yes, this meeting.


REYNOLDS: Itís probably only 10 more minutes.


MASCARENAS: I wanted her here for the Ag Building, because theyíre handling the grant for the RD.


TYLER: Right, I know.


DOUGAN: So, I think thatís the end of your presentation?




DOUGAN: And so we just really want this group to know all the coordination and some of the decisions that weíve got to make in order to make this thing happen, in what is 21 months from now.


MCNALLY: So, move the pod contents, got to find a spot for that and move the storage area and we got to start working on the asbestos abatement, are our priorities, right?




MASCARENAS: And I think what youíre going to see over the next year is that these meetings are going to become more like this. With all the ARPA projects that we have listed and have going, weíre going to be trying to move these things forward and discuss some of the barriers and projects that we have with all of you.


DOUGAN: A couple of other projects that we have budgeted that are about to go out to bid fairly shorty like that, that the two pump stations in the back. Theyíre going to involve some coordination with staff and blocking off some areas, too. So, as we come to those, Iím going to be giving you a little bit more detail. Instead of just these quick rundowns, like I have and what process weíve made, Iím going to make you a little bit more involved in those ones that just have a lot more moving parts and pieces so that youíre aware as we go forward.


STANLEY, MATT: Thinking about timing for this, instead of trying to relocate everybody in those red areas, would it behoove us to try to figure this out and get it down around a holiday, like Christmas to New Yearís, so you could just close those sections for like a 2-week period to not have to move people, but they wouldnít be there if we could close those areas during a major holiday or something.


DOUGAN: We have, not so much around Christmas/New Yearís, but in-house, you know we have discussed that itís been my recollection that the court system, tends to shut down for a couple of weeks in the summertime. They donít have much doing on; I was going to start to look at their schedule for 2024, if itís available. I feel like our people, Probation, Treasurer, DSS Accounting are easier to work with than the court system. Anybody thatís worked with them would probably agree with me, so I was shooting for the same kind of thought process, but yeah, I think we need to work on thoughts like that.


MASCARENAS: I think with Probation I can work out something that works pretty well, based on what we did during the pandemic with some of those things, so it did prepare us for not having facilities.


STANLEY, MATT: Silver lining.


MASCARENAS: Yeah, then Iím not overly concerned about, even finding a building or anything. I think I can work that out with their director, personally, and we can figure that out, how to keep them going. DSS Accounting, we can figure out, thatís not a problem, but like Jim said, the courtís probably going to be the most difficult situation and the pod, because of the physical space those machines take up is going to be, thatís going to be a critical piece. We do have a few options, I think. We just need to see what will work and what wonít work.


WINEMILLER: The records that have to be moved out of there. How secure to they have to be and how confidential are they?


MASCARENAS: I donít know the answer to that question, because I donít know whatís there. I know that there are some court records and Iím guessing thatís not all thatís there and whether some can even be disposed of per a normal schedule is also a possibility. I think doing that is going to help get rid some of those records. So, those are questions weíve got to ask. By the next meeting, Iím going to have meetings with the Clerkís office, with whoever has records in there, Elections and weíre going to start figuring whatís exactly in there and what we need, because you guys all have facilities. Maybe we can figure out something out close by where we can put those records.


WINEWILLER: I was think about those, like almost like those recycling trailers that we all have.


MASCARENAS: Weíve done that before.


DOUGAN: We are renting a storage building for records, down in New Russia, right now and I do believe that these particular records they tried to keep away from the area, because they are a little but more sensitive, but I donít know to want level, exactly. I think theyíve kept them away, because theyíre a little more sensitive.


GILLILLAND: I heard from a couple of departments that they may not even be recoverable, because of the humidity and mold.




GILLILLAND: So, we have to get in there and determine that anyway.


MASCARENAS: Itís in rough shape.


MONTY: I have a location in Lewis thatís presently unoccupied, thatís heated, dry. In the old Lewis school, the basement. We call it a basement, but it was three classrooms when it was a school, that no oneís in right now, that you could possibly move the records to, like I said, heated and dry.


MASCARENAS: Thatís a good solution.



Rather the 15-20 page handout that weíve had in the past, as Mike said, weíre going to try to be a little bit more detailed on a few of these projects. This is a whiteboard in my office. This is basically the same projects; itís a little hard to read. I do have a handout for everybody, you can take a look at it and it kind of tells you where we are on all these projects, if weíre in design, if weíre in construction, weíve got a proposed bid date, what our current status, who the contractor is. A lot of the same stuff Iíve been providing to you. I will give you a copy, if you have questions, call me, ask me next month and rather than spending my time on that 14-page document, Iím going to, weíre spending a little more time on the details of these many projects and weíre going to bring you guys up to date on that.


MCNALLY: Thatís fine, good idea.

Anything else? Okay, weíre all set.






Respectively Submitted,




Dina Garvey, Deputy Clerk

Board of Supervisors